I think DMS is a brewing myth...

[spiderwrangler]

It's the Terrapin Rye Pale Ale recipe with WLP 833 lager yeast because it's too cold for ale yeast. I've never had that beer, but the recipe looked awesome.

Interesting...

[Bokonon]

From what I understand about DMS, it's okay to have a little of that character in a lager, but it's unacceptable in an ale. Also, from what I understand you're not likely to get any in an ale and you might get a little in a lager; which is totally acceptable. My point is that DMS doesn't matter.

Is there anyone out there really having problems with their beer tasting like cooked corn or raw vegetables? I'd like to hear how it happened. Because like I said before, I challenge anyone to brew drunker than me, and that includes Justin, and I've never had the problem in 7 years.

I've never noticed any DMS in any of my beers but I have noticed it in beers judged at competitions.

[Ozwald]

From what I understand about DMS, it's okay to have a little of that character in a lager, but it's unacceptable in an ale. Also, from what I understand you're not likely to get any in an ale and you might get a little in a lager; which is totally acceptable. My point is that DMS doesn't matter.

Is there anyone out there really having problems with their beer tasting like cooked corn or raw vegetables? I'd like to hear how it happened. Because like I said before, I challenge anyone to brew drunker than me, and that includes Justin, and I've never had the problem in 7 years.

I've never noticed any DMS in any of my beers but I have noticed it in beers judged at competitions.

Ditto. Only it wasn't homebrew or a competition. It was 2 small breweries in their tasting rooms.

[adamK]

The most notable culprit of DMS in memory was from a home malting experiment of a friend. History suggests it wasn't sanitation caused (they generally brewed clean beers). The most likely culprit was the short boil with low-kilned malts. Of note was that it was not directly picked up by all (though something amiss was noted), but undrinkable to some.

I have noticed it in tolerable quantities in some local pilsners. The characteristic could be in their other beers, just covered up. As suggested, though, this isn't scientific, and I am not willing to risk making a batch of V8/corn beer to test its creation, when avoiding it is so damn easy.

What is more scientific, though, is collecting and condensing some of your boil off. With a vigo rous boil, you will notice the DMS in the condensation is quite strong, and not so mythical. What throws me off, though, is the short boil/no boil berlinerweisses without that characteristic (pilsner and wheat as the grist).

To me DMS can often come across with a strong tomato-juice/V8 character, suggesting taking the canned corn form too directly can be problematic depending on how your senses pick it up.

BeaverBarber: In your current batch, what malts are in your light lager? If it is domestic 2-row, that should help minimize the DMS a bit.

[BeaverBarber]

Here's what I brewed:

Terrapin Rye Pale Ale

OG 1.054
current gravity 1.020, and it's still fermenting. Airlock bubbles every 5 seconds.
Predicted FG 1.016

71.3% American 2 Row (Great Western)
10% Light Munich (Briess)
10% Rye Malt (Weyerman)
5% Victory Malt (Briess)
3.7% Honey Malt (Gambrinus)

60 minutes Magnum 25 BU's
30 minutes Fuggles 5 BU's
20 minutes East Kent Golding 2 BU's
10 minutes East Kent Golding 2 BU's
0 minutes 1 oz Cascade 5.6% AA steeped for 10 minutes before run off through a counterflow chiller.

My boil took about 2-3 hours because it never really got boiling. I don't know the specifics of time because by that time I had too much beer to care, but I do know it wasn't boiling; just a heavy simmer.
It took 24 hours to chill to 56 F, which was the temp I was targeting.
WLP 833 @ 48 ambient and 55 internal temperature as suggested by White Labs web site.
Raised to 57 degrees after 4 days because according to the web site it should be safe to do so. The beer is currently 5 days old.

Tasted today. It tastes great. I can see how this recipe started a brewery. I highly recommend picking this beer up from the store if you can find it or to try brewing it yourself. It's very easy. 10% rye really comes through strongly so if you've never used rye, I'd suggest that as a starting point. It turns out Chris White is correct; his yeast performs very well and very cleanly at 55 degrees. Do yourself a favor and take his advice; the yeast will perform faster and better. What more can you ask?

Off flavors that I've had in the past include: green apples, bubble gum, and band-aids. I knew the boil wasn't the cause of green apples, but I wasn't sure about bubble gum or band-aids. I looked it up, found out the only problem would possibly be DMS. I've never made a beer that tastes like corn or cooked vegetables in the past, and I feel that I've made every error in brewing that is humanly possible. I found this chart on page 240 of this book http://books.google.com/books?id=allg4X ... ne&f=false and I decided that it wouldn't be a problem for me since very few beers have a DMS content above the taste threshold of 50-60 micrograms. Then, I noticed that it is a very unstable compound that evaporates at very low temperatures. I also felt that somewhere there is a poor, hapless homebrew unnecessarily evaporating a gallon of our his work into the atmosphere, and decided to start this thread.

[brewinhard]

From what I understand about DMS, it's okay to have a little of that character in a lager, but it's unacceptable in an ale. Also, from what I understand you're not likely to get any in an ale and you might get a little in a lager; which is totally acceptable. My point is that DMS doesn't matter.

Is there anyone out there really having problems with their beer tasting like cooked corn or raw vegetables? I'd like to hear how it happened. Because like I said before, I challenge anyone to brew drunker than me, and that includes Justin, and I've never had the problem in 7 years.

As I have stated above I have trouble detecting DMS in low quantities. I have entered beers in comps before where the judges feedback indicated slight DMS notes in the aroma and flavor where I detected none. Could've been classic homebrewer bias, but I still did not really detect any amounts even after trying the same beer while analyzing the judges comments. Do keep in mind, that many judges are ALWAYS looking for flaws in beer entries.

When you say you have never had the problem in 7 years, is that just from you tasting your own beers? Have you entered any competitions for feedback, or shared your beers with other knowledgeable brewers? Sometimes others can detect things in our finished product that we do not, for better or worse....

[adamK]

My boil took about 2-3 hours because it never really got boiling. I don't know the specifics of time because by that time I had too much beer to care, but I do know it wasn't boiling; just a heavy simmer.

I think your extended ``boil'' will help to correct the potential problem. You also quickly chilled below creation temps (140F?), which will also help.

I can see how this recipe started a brewery. I highly recommend picking this beer up from the store if you can find it or to try brewing it yourself.

I agree. It was the beer that convinced me GA is making some great beer. Makes visiting the in laws that much better.

I also felt that somewhere there is a poor, hapless homebrew unnecessarily evaporating a gallon of our his work into the atmosphere, and decided to start this thread.

Hopefully I (and assuming the others) haven't been coming off as shooting down your suggestion. I have enjoyed reading the thread and think it is a good thing to discuss. There are other important things that happen during the boil in addition to driving off DMS, so cutting it short can have other negative sides. Plus, if you shorten the boil, you shorten drinking time.

[Kodos]

I'm most likely missing something here, 'cause this chemistry stuff tends to escape me a little, but my understanding was that heating SMM in the kettle creates DMS.

The boil then in turn drives off the DMS. So while the OP might be correct in saying DMS is driven off so easily it's hardly worth worrying about, it's the SMM being continuously converted throughout the boil that causes the problem.

While I agree home brewers are quick to fall for myths, I doubt this is one of them. Commercial breweries work hard (and we've heard on The Session from brewers who spend a lot of coin on gear) to eliminate it.

Similarly, Bamforth has spoken about working with UK breweries who measure the amount of DMS because they *want* some in their beers, to replicate the European flavours.