Calling water experts: Imperial Stout H2O additions: HELP!

[Chupa LaHomebrew]

I did mash pH readings on my last batch, a pilsner, with cheap paper pH strips and the ColorpHast strips. The wort color should have been way less influential on the color reading. The water profile had some gypsum and calcium chloride additions to hit an RA of -60, which is totally in the range for hitting a proper pH on this beer style.

- The cheap strips, although hard to read, were reading somewhere between 5.2-5.5, what I would expect to see.
- The ColorpHast strips showed 4.9, to the best of my reading ability.

I dont know how ColorpHast strips ever got a good reputation. Maybe they are good for scientific lab work, but for homebrew, they suck.

[Herve]

I can not seem to find it at the moment but I remember John Palmer either in an early appearance on the BN (pre water shows?) or in “How to Brew” stating that he doesn’t go over 250 RA even in the darkest beers because that PH and color are not linear as the beer gets darker. I’ve stuck to this as a max in my stouts in the 35 to 40 L range and the PH comes in at 5.4 (narrow range beer PH test strips). I build my water from RO and have found no off flavors that I could taste. Hopefully John will reply to this thread. May be a miss quote maybe not, it works for me. Ymmv.

[Nyakavt]

Chupa, have you seen the result of Kai's experiment with the colorpHast strips? A bunch of the guys on the NB forum (and others) sent him strips and he tested them all against his pH meter. Part of the problem was that there is some error just in interpreting what the strip says. Also, there seems to be a lot to lot variation, or maybe it has something to do with the shelf life. It could be that your strips are quite old, and unfortunately they don't print a date of manufacture that I've seen.

The experiment showed that the strips have a systematic error of -0.3 to -0.4 units, with a readability error of +/- 0.2 units. This is not very good when we are considering a range that is only 0.4 units wide, but it is certainly better than nothing.

You can see his experiment here.

[Nyakavt]

And once again, thank you AJ for the excellent content. This is one of the more confusing areas for homebrewers, especially when they hear the expert at Brew Strong advocating a method that really doesn't work consistently. John is the first to admit that his water spreadsheet is 'arm waving at its finest', but a lot of us ignore that caveat and try to apply the spreadsheet anyway. We really need a discussion on the show about this topic so that it can reach a wider audience.

[Chupa LaHomebrew]

Herve, that's an interesting comment. I don't recall hearing John say that he does not go over 250 RA, but it's good to know. It certainly sounds a lot more reasonable than trying to hit 300-400 RA. I think the spreadsheet should somehow accommodate for this, though, or at least have a note on it in the directions.

Nyakavt, thanks for the link. I have seen that thread, but it's good to have a link here.

[Nyakavt]

The RA does turn red when you get over 300, although he doesn't state what this means in the instructions. I've emailed him before and he said you don't need to go above 250 RA even with very dark grist bills. I think the explanation he used was there is some natural limit that the grain will acidify the mash.

Further reading suggests that roasted and darker crystal grain just doesn't acidify the mash as much as previously thought, so the scale of Palmer's spreadsheet is too high, especially at the high end of the SRM range.

[Chupa LaHomebrew]

Huh, that's interesting. It DOES turn red. That definitely needs a notation in the instructions.

I racked the RIS last night to a keg and took a flavor / gravity sample. It's about 9.75% ABV. It doesn't taste great yet, I can't say whether it's just because it is an extremely strong/dark/hoppy beer, or if there is something odd with the water. I do at least imagine a salty note in the flavor, but I'm not sure if it's really there or if I'm just looking too hard. I'll try to give an update on this beer's flavor in the coming months.

The second runnings beer is really nice! It's 4.1% ABV and tastes like a malty, slightly roasty and smokey brown porter. This would be perfect as a cask beer or just serving a littler warmer / lower carbonation. Yum!

[Herve]

Found it. Check out the Water show #4. John and Jamil go into this in the beginning of the show. snip/ John "I don't recommend going over about 250ra, only in the darkest Imp. Stouts may you want to go up to 300ra max." /snip.