Crystal 60L In a Saison

[BigNastyBrew]

So, I'm looking at adding some color to the Saison recipe from BCS. But I'm wondering about the mash temp.

If I mash at 147°, will I get anything at all from the Crystal 60? Or is that too low for that malt?

[BDawg]

Crystal 60, like all Crystal malts, is already converted so it does not need to be mashed at all. The starches have already been converted to sugars and some short chain dextrins (unfermentable sugars). In the mash, these pre-converted grains simply leach out their color and sugars, pretty much like it was being steeped.

So, the low temp will affect the base grains and other unconverted grains much more than the crystal. (That is not to say that ther won't be additional beta limit activity on some of the short chain dextrins. Just that the overall effect is much less on the crystal).

To borrow Palmer's analogy from How to Brew (hedge trimmers and clippers), Lets say you have a hedge (the grist) where one or two bushes have already been trimmed (the crystal malt), but most haven't been trimmed in quite a while (the base and other unconverted malts). The hedge trimmer (beta amylase) will get a few leaves off of the recently trimmed bushes, but that's nothing like what you get off the others using the clippers (alpha amylase) and the hedge trimmer (beta amylase).

So, in a nutshell, the low temps will make a very fermentable wort, but that's what you want in a Saison anyways. The low temp will do nothing extradordinary to the Crystal that isn't desireable given you want to brew a Saison anyways.

HTH-

[Newcastle]

You'll be fine but... you may want to try Caramunich instead - it'll give you great color, great malty flavor, without as much sweetness as Crystal 60.

[BigNastyBrew]

Crystal 60, like all Crystal malts, is already converted so it does not need to be mashed at all. The starches have already been converted to sugars and some short chain dextrins (unfermentable sugars). In the mash, these pre-converted grains simply leach out their color and sugars, pretty much like it was being steeped.

So, the low temp will affect the base grains and other unconverted grains much more than the crystal. (That is not to say that ther won't be additional beta limit activity on some of the short chain dextrins. Just that the overall effect is much less on the crystal).

To borrow Palmer's analogy from How to Brew (hedge trimmers and clippers), Lets say you have a hedge (the grist) where one or two bushes have already been trimmed (the crystal malt), but most haven't been trimmed in quite a while (the base and other unconverted malts). The hedge trimmer (beta amylase) will get a few leaves off of the recently trimmed bushes, but that's nothing like what you get off the others using the clippers (alpha amylase) and the hedge trimmer (beta amylase).

So, in a nutshell, the low temps will make a very fermentable wort, but that's what you want in a Saison anyways. The low temp will do nothing extradordinary to the Crystal that isn't desireable given you want to brew a Saison anyways.

HTH-

Thanks, BDawg. Not sure what I want to do. I've never had a Saison but of the photos I've seen, the "orange" ones look the most inviting to me. I like that analogy and have used it for myself in the past. I guess I just thought with the kilning, the Crystals would have to be in the alpha range but you're right of course. I just have to rinse them out.

[BigNastyBrew]

You'll be fine but... you may want to try Caramunich instead - it'll give you great color, great malty flavor, without as much sweetness as Crystal 60.

Great tip. I will certainly look into that for sure.

Question though. Will the sweetness from the crystal take away from the dry character of the beer? That is if I decide to go crystal versus caramunich.

Thanks

[Newcastle]

Unless you use it very sparingly (like 5% of your grist) yes, it will. Caramunich tends to be drier and more complex, but it still adds some sweetness and mouthfeel; just not as much as British and North American crystal malts.

[BigNastyBrew]

Awesome. Thanks for the help.

[bleachcola]

My personal preference is to get rid of the crystal malt altogether on my Saisons. Been brewing batch after batch for awhile now, altering my recipe and I like it best with just Pilsner, Wheat, Munich, and Cane Sugar. Just a personal preference. Munich gives it enough color for me.