Lactobacillus starter for berliner weisse

[cdburg]

GREAT LINKS!!!! so if you use the method they talk about in the video, do you never aerate the wort? With your lacto 7ish days before your yeast you're going to have alcohol in the fermenter.

The last one I did, I aerated before I pitched the ale yeast. With the high acidity after the lacto has done its work, I was worried the yeast wouldn't attenuate without the O2. It turned out well.

[brewinhard]

If you haven't already, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hClp9huB1M

And read the presentation here:
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/a ... Kahler.pdf

Jess Caudill from Wyeast gives some excellent techniques for Berliners, including starter sizes.

GREAT LINKS!!!! so if you use the method they talk about in the video, do you never aerate the wort? With your lacto 7ish days before your yeast you're going to have alcohol in the fermenter.

I would not aerate before adding your lacto or before adding your yeast. You simply run the risk of oxidizing your wort. Besides after the lacto have their way with the wort I really am unsure how much sugars are truly left for the ale yeast to chow down on. The only way you will have alcohol in your wort using just lacto is to use a heterofermentive strain of bacteria like WL provides. This lacto can produce CO2, lactic acid, AND alcohol. Unlike the WY strain of delbrucki (sp) that they provide (only produces lactic acid, CO2). WY summer offering currently has a second strain of lacto (brevis) that is more hop tolerant and does produce alcohol so that is also an option.

[Klickitat Jim]

Awesome video, thanks

[cdburg]

I would not aerate before adding your lacto or before adding your yeast. You simply run the risk of oxidizing your wort. Besides after the lacto have their way with the wort I really am unsure how much sugars are truly left for the ale yeast to chow down on.

From my experience, the amount of sugars left after the Lacto fermentation varies quite a bit, depending on the type of Lacto you use and, as you said, whether it's a heterofermentive or homofermentative strain. Wyeast's normal Lacto (5335) is pretty tame and homofermentative. It definitely leaves enough sugar acter seven says of activity for a good secondary fermentation with brewer's yeast. I've never used the White Labs version, but, as you said, it is heterofermentive and creates both alcohol and acid, and is not going to leave much for a secondary ferment after a week of activity.

With the Wyeast Lacto 5335, I've oxygenated before pitching Wyeast German Ale yeast, and I had no problems with oxidation in the finished beers. They were stable and tasting good several months after kegging. I've done the same with a Brett secondary ferment, and also had no issues. With other Lacto strains, I wouldn't be as confident there would be enough sugars left after seven days of Lacto fermentation to allow the brewer's yeast to be active enough to avoid eventual oxidyzing of the beer.

I think that Jess Caudill included his contact information in the presentation. It might be worth emailing him to get his thoughts about oxygenating.

[Bad Goat Brewing]

I think that Jess Caudill included his contact information in the presentation. It might be worth emailing him to get his thoughts about oxygenating.

Good Ideal, I just sent him an email. Post back with what I find out.

[ScottyB-Brewing]

I like the idea of doing a Berliner Weisse! Think Imma do one too! Sounds like fun!

[brewinhard]

With the Wyeast Lacto 5335, I've oxygenated before pitching Wyeast German Ale yeast, and I had no problems with oxidation in the finished beers. They were stable and tasting good several months after kegging. I've done the same with a Brett secondary ferment, and also had no issues. With other Lacto strains, I wouldn't be as confident there would be enough sugars left after seven days of Lacto fermentation to allow the brewer's yeast to be active enough to avoid eventual oxidyzing of the beer.

Cool observations! As I said previously there are lots of ways to skin this cat....

[Bad Goat Brewing]

Jess emailed back

"I typically don't use o2 in these beers. I think if the yeast pitch is healthy and at sufficient pitch rates , o2 is not necessary. This may be a different story if you are using this souring method with higher gravity brews. On the flip side I don't think it would hurt to add some small levels of O2 at this stage for most brews."

So I think I'll try it without the O2.