Lactobacillus starter for berliner weisse

[Bad Goat Brewing]

How do you do your starters for lactobacillus?
Here's i'm thinking about doing: WLP677 for 1-3 months In a gallon of wort.
Pitch the starter in fermenter (12 gallons) 72 hours before the yeast.

[Klickitat Jim]

I would not do a starter. I would cool my wort to ~100º and pitch lacto. Give it 3-5 days (sour to taste) them if needed chill to pitching temp and put a starter of the sac of your choice. I like my BW fairly clean ester wise, so I would use a clean lager. That's just me though.

[hairyhood]

Sour mash is the way to go. Mash....cool to about 110 degrees and throw in a pound of uncrushed 2-row....stir and keep it above 100 degrees for about 48 hours (easier to do than it sounds. Keep it in a cooler....about every 8 hours check the temp. If it is getting low, add a quart of boiling water). Keep tasting it. When you get the desired sourness just sparge, 15 minute boil and pitch WLP001. I have done about 5-6 Berliners now. The sour mash has a far superior taste to pitching lacto (in my opinion anyway)....plus...you aren't waiting months to sour it.

[Bad Goat Brewing]

Sour mash is the way to go. Mash....cool to about 110 degrees and throw in a pound of uncrushed 2-row....stir and keep it above 100 degrees for about 48 hours (easier to do than it sounds. Keep it in a cooler....about every 8 hours check the temp. If it is getting low, add a quart of boiling water). Keep tasting it. When you get the desired sourness just sparge, 15 minute boil and pitch WLP001. I have done about 5-6 Berliners now. The sour mash has a far superior taste to pitching lacto (in my opinion anyway)....plus...you aren't waiting months to sour it.

I do like faster.....Do you find this method very consistent?

[brewinhard]

Welcome to the forum! It sounds like you want to build up enough lacto to sour a 12 gallon batch. I do think you need a starter for this much wort and you will be more successful with pitching enough bacteria. The last BW I made (for 5 gallons), I started off with one WY lacto pack in a small 1 qt starter of a low gravity (1.020), unhopped, no aeration (i.e. no stir plate, use an airlock and don't swirl like a normal starter). Keep it warm (around 90-100F) and let it completely ferment out (about 7 days). Since lacto is very dusty and doesn't like to settle out well, I chilled the lacto overnight to help it floc to the bottom of the flask. The next day, let it warm up to room temps, carefully decant the spent wort on top, and add 2 qts of 1.030 wort to the flask minimizing aeration the best you can (obviously a little splashing will occur and thats okay). Slap the airlock back on and keep the temps between 90-100F until the wort is completely fermented out (7-10 days). After fermentation, cold crash overnight to drop out the lacto, then bring up to room temps on brew day, decant and pitch.

That was enough lacto to successfully ferment out a sour berliner for 5 gallons. If you need to double it, then by all means do so. I would double it after the 2 qt starter completely ferments out. That is when I would step it up to a gallon.

Keep in mind there are many ways to skin this cat and I can only tell you what I have done and had success with. That Berliner ended up taking a 2nd in NHC regionals a few years back. YMMV. Good luck and be patient as you will be rewarded!

Cheers-
Brewinhard

[hairyhood]

I think they all came out pretty consistent. The key is to taste it. Even though it smells bad, it tastes pretty good. And try to keep your temp as consistent as you can. I live in FL, so in the summer I do these in my garage. Just check the temp every 8 hours...and I forgot to say, blanket the vessel with CO2 after opening. You want to keep oxygen out. I was disappointed with the time it took pitching lacto and the flavor wasn't what I liked. You can be drinking your Berliner in a couple of weeks with the sour mash. Google Sean Coates Berliner. I pretty much follow his procedure. Overall it is a little more work, but again, I think the flavor is better and a faster turn around is nice. Plus, you can say you did a sour mash!

[cdburg]

If you haven't already, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hClp9huB1M

And read the presentation here:
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/a ... Kahler.pdf

Jess Caudill from Wyeast gives some excellent techniques for Berliners, including starter sizes.

[Bad Goat Brewing]

If you haven't already, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hClp9huB1M

And read the presentation here:
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/a ... Kahler.pdf

Jess Caudill from Wyeast gives some excellent techniques for Berliners, including starter sizes.

GREAT LINKS!!!! so if you use the method they talk about in the video, do you never aerate the wort? With your lacto 7ish days before your yeast you're going to have alcohol in the fermenter.