Dark Strong Ale advice

Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:25 pm

On Jamil's show, speaking on Dark Belgian Ales, they mention Belgian dark candi sugar. I have two questions:
1. Jamil recommends adding table sugar later in fermentation for Golden Strong Ales, why add this one at boil?
2. The package says beet sugar, What is different about this than white granulated table sugar?

Also, one of the guys said he will crash his to 50F for a week to let it clear out. Will there really be enough yeast left in suspension for bottling if I do this? Im using WL 550.

Lastly, thanks to all here for the input you have given me over the last couple years. My recent Tripel is off the charts, and I never could have done it without this site and the great people on it. Yes, I have been drinking. If I was with you, I would probably hug you...
Jason.

tap:Alesmith IPA
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crashlann
 
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Re: Dark Strong Ale advice

Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:53 am

1 - For a Dark Belgian, the sugar will cook in the boil adding some flavors you wouldn't get from just adding it to the fermenter.
2 - Table sugar is made from beet sugar. Not sure what package you're referring to, candi sugar perhaps? You can turn table sugar into candi sugar if that's the case.
3 - I don't want to be hugged today.
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Ozwald
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Re: Dark Strong Ale advice

Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:57 pm

In addition to what Oz posted, yes you will have enough yeast left in suspension after letting it go down to50F for a week. Something you might want to consider though is rehydrating a pack of dry champagne yeast (I prefer lalvin EC-1118 for this) and adding this to your bottling bucket along with your cooled priming sugar at bottling time. I always do this when bottling a beer over 8% abv as I get worried about the yeast having enough in them to finish the job after a high gravity fermentation. In times when I have not done this I have sometimes ended up with a flat under carbonated beer even after several months. Being proactive seems to be the better approach.
brewinhard
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Re: Dark Strong Ale advice

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:10 am

Ozwald wrote:1 - For a Dark Belgian, the sugar will cook in the boil adding some flavors you wouldn't get from just adding it to the fermenter.
2 - Table sugar is made from beet sugar. Not sure what package you're referring to, candi sugar perhaps? You can turn table sugar into candi sugar if that's the case.
3 - I don't want to be hugged today.

Sorry, the Candi Sugar package says beet sugar on it. So there is a process that takes beet sugar and makes it candi sugar? Great thanks. I was asking because I remember Jamil saying in a podcast long ago to not worry so much about the fancy sugars, like on a Belgian Golden Strong, to just use Beet sugar. This beer has a different flavor profile so it makes sense that the candi sugar is important here.
Jason.

tap:Alesmith IPA
carboy:Sour Blonde, Rye Saison w/Brett
bottld: Tripel A,Tripel B,Sour Blonde,Hef, Saison w/Brett
OnDeck:Brown Ale
Longtermferm:

"They think I do not know a buttload of crap about the Gospel, but I do!,"Nacho
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crashlann
 
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Re: Dark Strong Ale advice

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:10 am

brewinhard wrote:In addition to what Oz posted, yes you will have enough yeast left in suspension after letting it go down to50F for a week. Something you might want to consider though is rehydrating a pack of dry champagne yeast (I prefer lalvin EC-1118 for this) and adding this to your bottling bucket along with your cooled priming sugar at bottling time. I always do this when bottling a beer over 8% abv as I get worried about the yeast having enough in them to finish the job after a high gravity fermentation. In times when I have not done this I have sometimes ended up with a flat under carbonated beer even after several months. Being proactive seems to be the better approach.

Thanks, this helps.
Jason.

tap:Alesmith IPA
carboy:Sour Blonde, Rye Saison w/Brett
bottld: Tripel A,Tripel B,Sour Blonde,Hef, Saison w/Brett
OnDeck:Brown Ale
Longtermferm:

"They think I do not know a buttload of crap about the Gospel, but I do!,"Nacho
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crashlann
 
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Re: Dark Strong Ale advice

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:37 am

crashlann wrote:
Ozwald wrote:1 - For a Dark Belgian, the sugar will cook in the boil adding some flavors you wouldn't get from just adding it to the fermenter.
2 - Table sugar is made from beet sugar. Not sure what package you're referring to, candi sugar perhaps? You can turn table sugar into candi sugar if that's the case.
3 - I don't want to be hugged today.

Sorry, the Candi Sugar package says beet sugar on it. So there is a process that takes beet sugar and makes it candi sugar? Great thanks. I was asking because I remember Jamil saying in a podcast long ago to not worry so much about the fancy sugars, like on a Belgian Golden Strong, to just use Beet sugar. This beer has a different flavor profile so it makes sense that the candi sugar is important here.

Candi syrup is a byproduct of rock candy production in Belgium. They start with beet sugar (same as cane sugar, wayyyy cheaper for them) and heat/cool it to make rock candy. The shit that's left over is the candi syrup and the dark varieties have some interesting flavor imbued in them.

The reason JZ says not to bother with light syrup is because it's basically inverted sucrose. The process goes Sucrose (Glucose-Fructose disaccharide) + heat/acid -> Glucose + Fructose (i.e. bond broken). The yeast can do this in their sleep so why pay 5 times more for the same thing?

So, dark candi syrup = Glucose + Fructose + random other shit (don't worry about the chemistry :aaron). Light candi syrup = Glucose + Fructose = same as using table sugar. The other shit is what you want.
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Bobbie Dooley
 
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Re: Dark Strong Ale advice

Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:11 pm

Bobbie Dooley wrote:
crashlann wrote:
Ozwald wrote:1 - For a Dark Belgian, the sugar will cook in the boil adding some flavors you wouldn't get from just adding it to the fermenter.
2 - Table sugar is made from beet sugar. Not sure what package you're referring to, candi sugar perhaps? You can turn table sugar into candi sugar if that's the case.
3 - I don't want to be hugged today.

Sorry, the Candi Sugar package says beet sugar on it. So there is a process that takes beet sugar and makes it candi sugar? Great thanks. I was asking because I remember Jamil saying in a podcast long ago to not worry so much about the fancy sugars, like on a Belgian Golden Strong, to just use Beet sugar. This beer has a different flavor profile so it makes sense that the candi sugar is important here.

Candi syrup is a byproduct of rock candy production in Belgium. They start with beet sugar (same as cane sugar, wayyyy cheaper for them) and heat/cool it to make rock candy. The shit that's left over is the candi syrup and the dark varieties have some interesting flavor imbued in them.

The reason JZ says not to bother with light syrup is because it's basically inverted sucrose. The process goes Sucrose (Glucose-Fructose disaccharide) + heat/acid -> Glucose + Fructose (i.e. bond broken). The yeast can do this in their sleep so why pay 5 times more for the same thing?

So, dark candi syrup = Glucose + Fructose + random other shit (don't worry about the chemistry :aaron). Light candi syrup = Glucose + Fructose = same as using table sugar. The other shit is what you want.

Thanks Bobbie Dooley.
I admire share your admiration for the great Phil Hendry!
Jason.

tap:Alesmith IPA
carboy:Sour Blonde, Rye Saison w/Brett
bottld: Tripel A,Tripel B,Sour Blonde,Hef, Saison w/Brett
OnDeck:Brown Ale
Longtermferm:

"They think I do not know a buttload of crap about the Gospel, but I do!,"Nacho
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crashlann
 
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:32 am
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