Saison with Brettanomyces

[mudhut]

I'm trying to figure out the best way to split a batch of saison that I have fermenting: 1/2 w/ brett and 1/2 without brett.

I brewed a saison roughly following Jamil's recipe (substituted some specialty malts with what is available at my local shop + .5lb of steeped acid malt), mashed at 147, and pitched Wyeast Saision 3724. It has been fermenting in a glass carboy on temp controller for 3 weeks. Pitched at 68 and ramped up to 84 over about 1 week. The yeast is still slowly working on it...was at 1.030 a week ago samples are promising...but still too sweet. Hoping to get it below 1.008.

I'm thinking about giving it a swirl to rouse the yeast more (to help distribute the yeast into the wort) and siphon off about half the wort into another fermentor and pitch some Brett C. and let that sit at ambient temps about 55-60 deg over the next 5-6 months or whenever it is ready. I would leave the other half in the original fermentor to finish out completely and bottle.

* Would Brettanomyces claussenii be the most appropriate? I'm looking for a subtle effect...so the drinker knows something is something different there but not quite sure what it is. This is my first wild brew.

* Should I add a bit of corn sugar for the brett to work on? It did have wheat in the mash. And I steeped .5lb of aciduated malt which I don’t think converted well. I would guess the wort is at about 1.020 by now...need to check it...

Any suggestions?

[mediumsk]

Brett C is definitely the cleanest of the 3 commercially available yeasts.
I wouldn't add any more fermentables to the beer, 1.020 is more than enough for the brett to work on.
By the way that yeast is a major bitch but just give it alot of time and who knows? your beer just might dry out enough that you will have to add some more fermentables for the yeast. I would recommend malto dextrin because its very un fermentable, the sachromyces in your beer wont work through it like they would corn sugar

[bigdan]

I have been experimenting with this a couple months now. I did a 10 gallon batch and split it four ways after primary. One I added the brett c., one cultured dregs of oravl, one cultured dregs of jolly pumpkin and one I just let the 3724 continue to work. The 3724 I kept warm and added yeas nutrient to. The rest I just am letting go at cellar temps. After three weeks the 3724 was at 1020 still, but now its at 1010. As for flavors my favorite is the one with jolly pumpkin and red oak chips. But the clausini is the cleanest of the three brett beers. Let me know how it goes.

[mudhut]

I would love to get my hands on some jolly pumpkin beers, alas Utah beverage control is not interested in helping me out. I've offered my services to them as a taster and to reccomend beers to bring in...sadly they don't respond to my offers.

I'm tempted to just get a bottle of Orval and dump the dregs...I hadn't thought of that. Cheaper and quicker than going my local shop to order up some Brett, plus I get a beer out of it.

Gravity has dropped to 1.015 now, so the stubborn yeast is still working away. I might try adding a little DAP. Thanks for the advice on the dextrin...might give that a try if it drops much further before I pitch the Brett.

[brewinhard]

I make many styles of brett beer (secondary and primary both). I will typically ferment a beer on a primary saccharomyces strain for 2-4 days before racking to a carboy and adding brett/oak. This allows for minimal oxidation to occur because when racking the fermenting wort it will push out any oxygen in the carboy which well help the beer to sit longer in the glass. It also allows for the brett to get a head start and wake up to some of the remaining sugars still in solution. Brett ferments start quicker like this and keep your turnover product coming. Aging between 50-low 60's helps the finished product.

Brett C. is an awesome strain for what you are looking for. Subtle yet unmistakenly there. I vote rack off the main yeast cake and pitch the brett. Let it sit for at least 2 months before doing anything to it.

[mudhut]

I just ordered some WLP645 from my local shop...will be another week and a half before it gets here but I think that will be fine. Might even get some oak cubes to try in some of it...just need to keep it subtle. I'll report how it turns out in a couple months....

-Judd

[mudhut]

Well my local shop ordered Brett B and not Brett C and it took them 2 weeks. At least they comped it. The gravity got down to 1.010 so I bottled 3x750s and racked the remaining 5 gal onto the Brett and 1lb of Maltodextrin. No idea how many points of gravity it has...its not in my beersmith. Two days later I can see the start of a pellicle forming!

[brewinhard]

If I remember correctly you will get about 8 points per pound in a five gallon batch or so. I believe Palmer has that written in his How to brew book.