Roselare Yeast

[HopRunner]

listen to Jamil's podcast. He recommends underpitching a Cal ale. His goal is here to leave the beer around 1.020, then he will pitch the Roselare in secondary, which will eat up the majority of the residual sugars..eventually. For those that argue traditional use of Belgian yeasts, Jamil uses cal ale to avoid the traditional practice of blending a super sour beer with another to arrive at a medium sourness keeping it really smooth. I'm ordering the yeast this weekend, so what the hell do I know? I've listened to the podcast about 3 times. I can't wait to get this going so that I can forget about it.

I've been doing the same. I am wondering what's the point of using Pilsner malt? I understand Pilsner malts in super light beers but why use it here? I also don't really understand the point of under pitching either. I didn't think that under pitching effected the Final Gravity as much as create off flavors during the huge growth faze in the beginning. I plan on truncating the fermentation by cooling the carboy after a few days.

Anyway, I have four packages of Roeselare and a couple of extra carboys........... Ohhh my swell just thinking about it...


aleguy - I don't buy your excuse maaaaaan. You can get your yeast shipped in an insulated box with a package of blue "ice". I'm sure JP and More Beer would be more than happy to ship you the yeast in good condition. Besides the bacteria cultures are F'n tough! and you will still have yeast in suspension from the initial primary fermentation. Time to buck up and brew it! Just sayin, join us and we can all compare notes.

I'm going to start mine the weekend after Memorial Day. I have an IIPA planned for that weekend that I need to get done so I can drink it! Reserves are getting low..

[Bellmer]

listen to Jamil's podcast. He recommends underpitching a Cal ale. His goal is here to leave the beer around 1.020, then he will pitch the Roselare in secondary, which will eat up the majority of the residual sugars..eventually. For those that argue traditional use of Belgian yeasts, Jamil uses cal ale to avoid the traditional practice of blending a super sour beer with another to arrive at a medium sourness keeping it really smooth. I'm ordering the yeast this weekend, so what the hell do I know? I've listened to the podcast about 3 times. I can't wait to get this going so that I can forget about it.

I don't understand what it is you are saying about why Jamil uses Cal Ale. The impression I got was that he wanted a clean slate to sour against and it was against his taste to have the belgian phenols mixing with the sour tastes. My argument on the side of using belgian yeasts was that it is more traditional since that is the yeast belgians are going to use (russian river/allagash/lost abbey do too). Certainly, if you don't enjoy how those turn out, then perhaps Jamil's way is a better option for you. The final gravity of Jamil's recipe, which is extremely similar to the 5 gallon Flander's Red recipe in Wild Brews, is largely unaffected by the yeast strain. There are so many different malts lending residual sweetness like caramunich/special b that it will almost always end at a slightly higher 1.020ish gravity, leaving plenty for the bugs to work on. I am unsure what the talk is about not getting much out of the Wild Brews book for doing sours on a homebrew scale. To me, it seemed like the entire book was geared for the homebrewer, as long as they didn't want to use full-size barrels, but that information is in there too. The practices of making a good sour ale - recipe formulation, turbid mash, yeast choice, wood choice, fermentation schedule, etc. - are all the same regardless of scale (aside from the scale itself obviously), and the book ends with a lot of very specific homebrew recipes, ideas, and suggestions. Everyone gets something different out of a book, so I am not going to beat a dead horse, but I think that the info is in there.

[brewinhard]

I just ordered my Roselare last night (3 vials). I plan on pitching just 1 fresh pack into the primary then racking to secondary with oak for long term aging after primary slows a bit. I have heard that even with pitching the straight Roselare as primary yeast that the beer doesn't get too sour. I really enjoy SOUR and funky beers and figured in a year or 18 months when I was gettting ready to package my flanders that I could always brew another batch just with cal ale yeast and blend to taste if it came out too sour. Somehow, I don't think that will be a problem!

[HopRunner]

I am unsure what the talk is about not getting much out of the Wild Brews book for doing sours on a homebrew scale. To me, it seemed like the entire book was geared for the homebrewer, as long as they didn't want to use full-size barrels, but that information is in there too. The practices of making a good sour ale - recipe formulation, turbid mash, yeast choice, wood choice, fermentation schedule, etc. - are all the same regardless of scale (aside from the scale itself obviously), and the book ends with a lot of very specific homebrew recipes, ideas, and suggestions. Everyone gets something different out of a book, so I am not going to beat a dead horse, but I think that the info is in there.

Maybe I misspoke a little on the Wild Brew book. Maybe instead of saying I was disappointed I should have said I was overwhelmed. I am so new to the process of souring beers that having all that history and discussions of every option ever tried was a bit much. It is one of those books that will continue to divulge its secrets for years to come as I continue to work through this process. Oh yes it is a very valuable book. I just wanted instant gratification and as such I am going to brew Jamil's recipe and process exactly.

I would still like to know why Pilsner Malt is used and not 2-Row for the Flanders recipes. Is that in there? I'll have to check tonight.

[Henning1966]

The pilsner malt is in there because that is what is available and grown locally in belgium. Continental pilsner ring a bell? Two row is an american malt if you are bewing to STYLE as in brewing classic styles. Then continental pils is the right malt to use.

[Bellmer]

I am unsure what the talk is about not getting much out of the Wild Brews book for doing sours on a homebrew scale. To me, it seemed like the entire book was geared for the homebrewer, as long as they didn't want to use full-size barrels, but that information is in there too. The practices of making a good sour ale - recipe formulation, turbid mash, yeast choice, wood choice, fermentation schedule, etc. - are all the same regardless of scale (aside from the scale itself obviously), and the book ends with a lot of very specific homebrew recipes, ideas, and suggestions. Everyone gets something different out of a book, so I am not going to beat a dead horse, but I think that the info is in there.

Maybe I misspoke a little on the Wild Brew book. Maybe instead of saying I was disappointed I should have said I was overwhelmed. I am so new to the process of souring beers that having all that history and discussions of every option ever tried was a bit much. It is one of those books that will continue to divulge its secrets for years to come as I continue to work through this process. Oh yes it is a very valuable book. I just wanted instant gratification and as such I am going to brew Jamil's recipe and process exactly.

I would still like to know why Pilsner Malt is used and not 2-Row for the Flanders recipes. Is that in there? I'll have to check tonight.

I understand your meaning now, and agree. I feel like everytime I read that book I learn something new. You might have to read it a few times, but I guarantee the info is in there. A lot of the info is predicated upon the same type of advice that many brewers give you though - you just gotta try it out and get a feel for it. Experiment and figure it out because it is such an organic process with thousands upon thousands of variables.

+1 to what Henning said. Pilsener is the local/traditional malt used. However, some breweries like De Struise are fond of using Castle 2-Row (which I think is from the UK), and if you read through the histories etc. in that series of books, using English ingredients seems pretty appropriate. However, Pilsener is still the traditional choice for those recipes. I'm just saying that once you're comfortable with it, there really isn't a reason not to experiment with it. Best to get it down the tried and true way first, though. Best of luck.

[HopRunner]

The pilsner malt is in there because that is what is available and grown locally in belgium. Continental pilsner ring a bell? Two row is an american malt if you are bewing to STYLE as in brewing classic styles. Then continental pils is the right malt to use.

Thanks for the Pilsner info. I will probably just go with 2-row then. I'd rather not boil for 90 minutes if I can substitute the base malt without sacrificing something specific that comes from the Pilsner.

[aleguy]

aleguy - I don't buy your excuse maaaaaan. You can get your yeast shipped in an insulated box with a package of blue "ice". I'm sure JP and More Beer would be more than happy to ship you the yeast in good condition. Besides the bacteria cultures are F'n tough! and you will still have yeast in suspension from the initial primary fermentation. Time to buck up and brew it! Just sayin, join us and we can all compare notes.

I'm going to start mine the weekend after Memorial Day. I have an IIPA planned for that weekend that I need to get done so I can drink it! Reserves are getting low..

I and others in my town have tried ordering yeast many times in the warm months, with ice packs and all. Once the temps hit the high nineties, the yeast just doesn't survive sitting in a brown truck for ten hours until they get to the residential deliveries. I'll try though. I guess I'll have to get another fermentation vessel.