Boycott UPS

[bcmaui]

I've used both FEDex and UPS without a problem for years.

Many vendors put the "CONTAINS ALCOHOL - MUST BE OVER 21" sticker on my purchases, so I have to pickup in person.

US Post Office has a thing about liquids, so I skip them.

Each state is different and the wine industry has fought long and hard to overturn archaic rules that limited market exposure to the small producers. I don't think this is an anti-beer thing as much as it reflects the progress the wine industry has made in overturning some of these rules with recent court cases. If the Brewer's Association were to get behind shipping reform, we would see the opening of inter-state markets for beer as well.

Still, many states are reluctant to allow direct shipment of any type of alcohol as they feel they are loosing out on potential tax revenues and the large liquor distributors encourage this protectionism as well.

http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature ... State_1049

Since Hawaii is one of the 13 "Reciprocal" states, and all the wine I purchase is from three other "Reciprocal" states (California, Oregon and Washington), I am able to order a certain amount per year direct for my household. Depending on the state you live in depends on what you can do, it has nothing to do with UPS or FEDEX.

With a revision in federal laws recently, FedEx and others have established a system to ship wine - this is mostly for small "craft" wineries, and I purchase wine from a select group of small wineries in this manner that I could not get otherwise as they are not distributed here. If they were distributed here I would purchase them at the store as the shipping costs are high.

http://fedex.com/international/wineship/whocanship.html

Until there is a large demand for inter-state craft beer to overcome the tax revenue interests of your State and the the protection the large liquor distribution companies enjoy by banning this, this will be the norm.

Look at the following FEDEX page - rules depend on what the origin state and destination state is - it's a real mess and by no means a cake walk for the wine industry either.

https://www.fedex.com/cgi-bin/wineShipping.cgi

[wezil]

I think you all are missing the point on this tread. Read Jay Brooks article. This is related commercial sales not just shipping homebrew. I know that at one point a couple of weeks ago there was an online retailer that was going to be (or still is) a sponsor of The BN. I think the BNARMY might need to go all Ver-Monster on UPS to try and get this shit changed.

Brad

[bcmaui]

Brad -

You have to get the Brewer's Association to get active in creating a mechanism for inter- and intrastate shipping of beer like the wine industry did. A boycott of UPS is not addressing the legal issue that is creating this problem in the first place.

Jay Brooks does not mention in his article the time and effort the wine industry has spent overturning these cumbersome roadblocks that the 3 tier system created when prohibition was repealed. As most beer is mega swill sold at a retail level and the distributors of the mega swill like the domination of market control that they currently enjoy, there is probably not enough interest in the beer industry to fight this. The wine industry is more fragmented and had a greater interest in fighting for these changes. Maybe the micro/craft brewers will hop on, or maybe not.

UPS does not want to be in violation of crappy laws. You need to go Vermonster on crappy state liquor laws, not a shipping company that does not want to risk being fined (or closed down) by an all powerful government.

The wine industry took this to all the way to the supreme court and only recently overturned restrictive rules that some states had regarding wine shipments. Beer shipment will continue to be restricted by all shipping companies unless the beer industry gets together to overturn these current idiotic laws. The wine industry has been the pioneer and opened the door, the beer industry could follow, but I suspect the large distributors that make up most beer sales prefer the status quo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/politics/17wine.html

The article in 2005 notes that "The big loser in the case was the wholesale liquor industry, which is now likely to expend considerable resources to preserve its niche in a market in which direct sales have been growing rapidly."

[barleypopmaker]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/03/0 ... -beer.html

This article talks about how this is affecting Brewforia. Although I cannot boycott UPS or FedEx because corporate will not care about my beer dilemma, I would like to contact someone other than general customer service who has no say in the matter. But I cannot find that contact info on their website.

[wezil]

BC
I respectfully disagree. While there are states that have laws the do need to be changed. There are states where this is allowed and UPS is just say we have no reason we just dont care.

Brad

[BrewBum]

BC
I respectfully disagree. While there are states that have laws the do need to be changed. There are states where this is allowed and UPS is just say we have no reason we just dont care.

Brad

Yep, what Brad said. This is not a law based situation at all, there are states that UPS can't ship wine either because of law. This is all about them not believing there is a reason to ship beer and they don't want to.

I would use fed ex but no drop off point for me. I might look into a pick up situation though if I need to ship something in the future.

[bcmaui]

Both of you still don't understand my point. A boycott of UPS or FEDex won't change anything. You are boycotting a market that does not exist, they won't care.

The wine industry fought long and hard to allow wine producers to ship directly to consumers - if you are in one of the fortunate states that have most favored trading status, it is now pretty easy to purchase WINE between these states, especially after a 2005 Supreme Court ruling regarding WINE.

http://www.ttb.gov/publications/direct_shipping.shtml

Currently most state laws only allow BEER to be shipped between distributors, not to consumers, if they allow shipping into that state at all. This is a retail guy in one state and the retail guys in other states don't want this to happen. Most beer distributors and retailers don't care if they stock the stuff you want or not, they just want to protect their market share where you live. The state government is the same way, these distributors and retailers are their tax collectors and they don't want you to be able to go around them and purchase from another state.

My hunch is that the states are in budget trouble and have issued warnings to FEDEX and UPS that BEER CAN NOT BE SHIPPED. This guy was under the radar for this before, but no longer.

Even on Beertown.org the notes that they have on most state regulations only talk about wine shipments, not beer.

http://www.beertown.org/govt_affairs/2007/april.html

The wine industry has a much larger amount of small and mid-sized producers and many enthusiasts that purchase through the mail order. Similar to the "Free the Hops" campaign going on in Alabama, many years before there was a "Free the Grapes" campaign. It is only recently that have we been able to purchase directly from wine producers via UPS and FEDEX.

http://www.freethegrapes.org/

http://pointclickthink.com/

If the BEER industry wants to do the same so I can order BEER the same way I can order WINE from other states that are allowed to ship me WINE, then BEER has to speak up.

It's stupid. But bitching at UPS or FEDEX won't change anything. Bitching to your legislature may, but the very powerful companies that distribute BEER and WINE have already lost the WINE battle and they will remind how much they donate to local politicians and how much they pay in local taxes and discourage your elected officials to allow BEER to enjoy the same freedom that WINE currently has.

You may be able to point out that craft beer is often a regional product and not available everywhere, but with over 90% of the beer market domestic and imported mega swill, there may not even be enough interest in the beer industry to support this reform as there was in the wine industry.

[BrewBum]

So you are saying shipping beer has always been illegal and they have just been bypassing the law?

Explain beer of the month clubs then that can ship to some states and not others.

Nothing that I read in UPS's statements have said they are not shipping for this guy because the places he is shipping to it is illegal, they just say that don't want to ship it anymore beer. More clarification is deserved and boycotting UPS, while really won't accomplish much because of our size, does make me feel better and may bring out clarification, if there is any.

I get what you are saying bcmaui but you are assuming that is why UPS stopped, yet they have said nothing that I found of the sorts. I could be wrong though.