Altering a Brunch Stout extract recipe

[DonMoleon]

I have a family member flying from the States to see me in a few weeks, so I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity and have her bring me an extract kit. I really want to brew something close to Founder's Breakfast Stout, but because I have to consider her luggage limitations I have decided to just ask her to bring a pre-assembled extract kit that is fairly similar and possibly make some minor modifications to the recipe. The closest kit I've found is Northern Brewer's Brunch Stout recipe (5 gallons) which I've pasted below:

6 lbs Maris Otter Malt Syrup
2 lbs Golden Light dry malt extract
0.35 lbs English Chocolate Malt
1.25 lbs English Roasted Barley
1 lbs English Dark Crystal
0.4 lbs Franco-Belges Kiln Coffee Malt
4 oz Peace Coffee Organic French Roast (0 min)
1 lb D-180 Candi Syrup (add at end of boil)
2 oz Nugget (60 min)
1⁄2 tsp. yeast nutrient (last 15 minutes)
Dry Yeast (default): Safale S-04 Ale Yeast

I was thinking of adding around 16-20 oz. of flaked oats (which I can buy locally), and substituting most of the Candi syrup for a few ounces of cocoa nibs (NB offers Ghana cocoa as well as Paua New Guinea cocoa in 4 oz. packs).

Does this sound like a good direction? Any suggestions for actual amounts of oats and cocoa nibs to substitute for some or all of the candi syrup?

[Ozwald]

I've never been a kit brewer, but AFAIK those similarly named kits from NB are pretty much spot on out of the box. They avoid copyright issues by tweaking the name Breakfast Stout becomes Brunch, Moose Drool becomes Caribou Slobber, Ruthless Rye to Rebel Rye, etc. I'm sure you could make a tasty beer by tweaking it a bit, but I doubt you'll get any closer than they already did. Some oats might be nice (if you like them, unlike myself). Nibs & candy syrup are like comparing apples & station wagons - you can't substitute one for the other as they're completely different things. Not saying that nibs wouldn't be tasty in a stout, but they're no substitute. I would imagine the syrup comes with the kit, but if not I would cook down some table sugar into a syrup & use that. For D-180, you'll have to cook it for quite a long time. Very similar to making a dark roux, low, slow & don't stop stirring.

[snowcapt]

yeah, what he said.
Nibs = cocoa flavor
Candi = fermentables
those kits are really close to what they intend them to be.
What yeast will you be using? Something from the kit or are you purchasing seperate?

[Ozwald]

I didn't even think of that... you should have your family member 'smuggle' in a 500g block of yeast. Do some clean ferments & reuse the yeast a couple times, you won't have to worry about that yeast problem (no, the other yeast problem ) you were having a month or so ago for a very long time.

[DonMoleon]

Thanks for the replies.

The ingredients I listed previously were all from the NB kit. The yeast included in the kit is Safale S-04 Ale Yeast. I always brew from extract kits here, so I get the necessary yeast from the kits I buy (on a side note to Ozwald, I plan to have her bring me some wine yeast for mead).

The reason I was considering substituting the candi syrup for cocoa nibs was based on my comparison of the NB ingredients and a Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone recipe I found online, listed here:

6.6 lbs. (3.0 kg) Briess light, unhopped, liquid malt extract
1.7 lbs. (0.77 kg) light dry extract
22 oz. (0.62 kg) flaked oats
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) chocolate malt (350 °L)
12 oz. (0.34 kg) roast barley malt (450 °L)
9.0 oz. (0.25 kg) debittered, black malt (530 °L)
7.0 oz. (0.19 kg) crystal malt (120 °L)
2.0 oz. (57 g) ground Sumatran coffee
2.0 oz. (57 g) ground Kona coffee
2.5 oz. (71 g) dark, bittersweet baker’s chocolate
1.5 oz. (43 g) unsweetened chocolate baking nibs
14.3 AAU Nugget pellet hops (60 min.) (1.1 oz./ 31 g of 13% alpha acid)
2.5 AAU Willamette pellet hops (30 min.) (0.5 oz./ 14 g of 5 % alpha acid)
2.5 AAU Willamette pellet hops (0 min.) (0.5 oz./ 14 g of 5 % alpha acid)
1⁄2 tsp. yeast nutrient (last 15 minutes)
1⁄2 tsp. Irish moss (last 15 minutes
White Labs WLP 001 (American Ale) or Wyeast 1056 (American Ale) yeast

I assumed that NB's recipe was not a clone recipe based on my amateur assessment and comparison of these two ingredients lists. However, if you guys believe that NB's recipe is actually a breakfast stout clone then I'll just stick to that.

[Ozwald]

Good call. I'd trust the kit to be more accurate than an internet search result. In my experience you can find about a half dozen very different recipes for almost any given beer. People also tend to forget that how a recipe turns out is all about your process & system. The exact recipe straight from the brewer may not turn out like the commercial example unless you know how your setup works. On the flip side, if people are 'cloning' the beer on their own, their recipe probably won't turn out like the commercial example on another system. At least if you know the recipe is solid, as in the NB kits, you can choose to brew your system's take on that beer or you could use the opportunity to dial in your system to the recipe i.e. seeing that you get better efficiency & knowing how to tweak the recipe to get the commercial style then being able to apply that to somewhat similar brews.

[DonMoleon]

I'm beginning to wonder if the NB brunch stout is actually a clone of Beer Geek's Brunch Stout, rather than something similar to Founder's Breakfast Stout.

I've never had the Beer Geek Brunch, but I've heard great things. I don't mind trying out this recipe, but if someone could suggest a good extract kit that is closer to a Founder's clone then that would be great. If not then I'll stick with the brunch stout.

Thanks

[DonMoleon]

I'm beginning to wonder if the NB brunch stout is actually a clone of Beer Geek's Brunch Stout, rather than something similar to Founder's Breakfast Stout.

I've never had the Beer Geek Brunch, but I've heard great things. I don't mind trying out this recipe, but if someone could suggest a good extract kit that is closer to a Founder's clone then that would be great. If not then I'll stick with the brunch stout.

Thanks

No replies after a week, so I went ahead and ordered the NB brunch stout anyway...

I also picked up some much needed yeast nutrient and a couple packets of Lalvin 71B-1122 for some more melomel experiments (no more bread yeast!).