Beer Forum

I have been thinking of brewing a high gravity saison using Wyeast 3724 with a SG of 1.108 knowing that I would get only about 75-80% attenuation of this yeast, I was thinking of using a second pitch of a dry finishing yeast to help get full attenuation.

Has anyone done anything along these lines?

Do you suggest a good time to do the second pitch?

I don't normally do second pitches, so I may be full of it, but it seems to me that it would be best to do it when you've hit your calculated final gravity.

A thought occurs to me: Why not use an Abbey Ale yeast first. That's what I use in my saisons

It's only two cents. Be careful where you spend it.

Maybe just use WY3711 instead? That yeast is a beast and will attenuate all that you can get out of your wort. Or pitch WY3724 first followed by WY311 after a few days?

Hoser wrote:Maybe just use WY3711 instead? That yeast is a beast and will attenuate all that you can get out of your wort. Or pitch WY3724 first followed by WY311 after a few days?

I did not think about using 3711 in addition to 3724... That would could be an interesting combination.

A few things to consider when pitching a second yeast to further attenuate a beer:

1. It probably won't work/attenuate as well as you think/hope it will. You have a wider variety of more effective options for making a fermentable wort on the wort production side of brewing.

2. Saison yeast strains typically require more aeration than other strains to reach their full potential. Aerate once before pitching, then once again between 12-18 hours. This second aeration will give the second generation of yeast the oxygen they need.

3. The second yeast you pitch will have a lack of nutrients and oxygen compared to the first pitch of yeast. The first yeast you pitch and the yeast that is grown during the lag phase will consume the bulk of both of these. Putting fresh yeast into a nutrient- and oxygen-deficient environment will not produce a desirable outcome. You are setting the second yeast strain up for failure.

4. It won't matter how big or healthy of a pitch you throw at it, that second yeast will not have enough simple sugars left to metabolise at the tail end of fermentation. It's going to be quite the uphill battle for that yeast to try to produce enough of the appropriate enzymes to cut the maltotriose and other residual complex sugars down into more manageable simple sugars. When the yeast sees this they are likely to quit and go into hibernation.


I suggest not pitching a second yeast strain because if you do, you are essentially "hoping for the best" and frankly we can do much better than that. You may get lucky and further attenuate the beer with that second yeast but conventional wisdom says you are likely wasting six to seven dollars on yeast that will at best give you minimal return on investment.

Instead, pitch two smack packs of the saison yeast along with doing an appropriate starter. Maybe cut back on any dextrin-rich malts, substitute some base malt in for simple sugar and add some simple sugar into the fermentor when fermentation appears to slow down.

Afterlab wrote:A few things to consider when pitching a second yeast to further attenuate a beer:

1. It probably won't work/attenuate as well as you think/hope it will. You have a wider variety of more effective options for making a fermentable wort on the wort production side of brewing.

2. Saison yeast strains typically require more aeration than other strains to reach their full potential. Aerate once before pitching, then once again between 12-18 hours. This second aeration will give the second generation of yeast the oxygen they need.

3. The second yeast you pitch will have a lack of nutrients and oxygen compared to the first pitch of yeast. The first yeast you pitch and the yeast that is grown during the lag phase will consume the bulk of both of these. Putting fresh yeast into a nutrient- and oxygen-deficient environment will not produce a desirable outcome. You are setting the second yeast strain up for failure.

4. It won't matter how big or healthy of a pitch you throw at it, that second yeast will not have enough simple sugars left to metabolise at the tail end of fermentation. It's going to be quite the uphill battle for that yeast to try to produce enough of the appropriate enzymes to cut the maltotriose and other residual complex sugars down into more manageable simple sugars. When the yeast sees this they are likely to quit and go into hibernation.


I suggest not pitching a second yeast strain because if you do, you are essentially "hoping for the best" and frankly we can do much better than that. You may get lucky and further attenuate the beer with that second yeast but conventional wisdom says you are likely wasting six to seven dollars on yeast that will at best give you minimal return on investment.

Instead, pitch two smack packs of the saison yeast along with doing an appropriate starter. Maybe cut back on any dextrin-rich malts, substitute some base malt in for simple sugar and add some simple sugar into the fermentor when fermentation appears to slow down.

Good points. I hadn't thought about the lack of oxygen. That's why I love this forum.

Dirk McLargeHuge wrote:

Afterlab wrote:A few things to consider when pitching a second yeast to further attenuate a beer:

1. It probably won't work/attenuate as well as you think/hope it will. You have a wider variety of more effective options for making a fermentable wort on the wort production side of brewing.

2. Saison yeast strains typically require more aeration than other strains to reach their full potential. Aerate once before pitching, then once again between 12-18 hours. This second aeration will give the second generation of yeast the oxygen they need.

3. The second yeast you pitch will have a lack of nutrients and oxygen compared to the first pitch of yeast. The first yeast you pitch and the yeast that is grown during the lag phase will consume the bulk of both of these. Putting fresh yeast into a nutrient- and oxygen-deficient environment will not produce a desirable outcome. You are setting the second yeast strain up for failure.

4. It won't matter how big or healthy of a pitch you throw at it, that second yeast will not have enough simple sugars left to metabolise at the tail end of fermentation. It's going to be quite the uphill battle for that yeast to try to produce enough of the appropriate enzymes to cut the maltotriose and other residual complex sugars down into more manageable simple sugars. When the yeast sees this they are likely to quit and go into hibernation.


I suggest not pitching a second yeast strain because if you do, you are essentially "hoping for the best" and frankly we can do much better than that. You may get lucky and further attenuate the beer with that second yeast but conventional wisdom says you are likely wasting six to seven dollars on yeast that will at best give you minimal return on investment.

Instead, pitch two smack packs of the saison yeast along with doing an appropriate starter. Maybe cut back on any dextrin-rich malts, substitute some base malt in for simple sugar and add some simple sugar into the fermentor when fermentation appears to slow down.

Good points. I hadn't thought about the lack of oxygen. That's why I love this forum.

I too did not think about the lack of Oxygen when doing the secondary pitch.

I have calcuated my SG to 1108 and figured I could get it down to around 1020, but I would rather finish under 1010 ideally 1008. Maybe I would be better going with my original pitch of Wyeast 3724 and adding some candy sugar towards the end of primary instead during the boil, it would bring my SG down slightly but help attenuation on a whole.

Or blending the yeast into the original starter and going from there.

NYCbrewing wrote:

Dirk McLargeHuge wrote:

Afterlab wrote:A few things to consider when pitching a second yeast to further attenuate a beer:

1. It probably won't work/attenuate as well as you think/hope it will. You have a wider variety of more effective options for making a fermentable wort on the wort production side of brewing.

2. Saison yeast strains typically require more aeration than other strains to reach their full potential. Aerate once before pitching, then once again between 12-18 hours. This second aeration will give the second generation of yeast the oxygen they need.

3. The second yeast you pitch will have a lack of nutrients and oxygen compared to the first pitch of yeast. The first yeast you pitch and the yeast that is grown during the lag phase will consume the bulk of both of these. Putting fresh yeast into a nutrient- and oxygen-deficient environment will not produce a desirable outcome. You are setting the second yeast strain up for failure.

4. It won't matter how big or healthy of a pitch you throw at it, that second yeast will not have enough simple sugars left to metabolise at the tail end of fermentation. It's going to be quite the uphill battle for that yeast to try to produce enough of the appropriate enzymes to cut the maltotriose and other residual complex sugars down into more manageable simple sugars. When the yeast sees this they are likely to quit and go into hibernation.


I suggest not pitching a second yeast strain because if you do, you are essentially "hoping for the best" and frankly we can do much better than that. You may get lucky and further attenuate the beer with that second yeast but conventional wisdom says you are likely wasting six to seven dollars on yeast that will at best give you minimal return on investment.

Instead, pitch two smack packs of the saison yeast along with doing an appropriate starter. Maybe cut back on any dextrin-rich malts, substitute some base malt in for simple sugar and add some simple sugar into the fermentor when fermentation appears to slow down.

Good points. I hadn't thought about the lack of oxygen. That's why I love this forum.

I too did not think about the lack of Oxygen when doing the secondary pitch.

I have calcuated my SG to 1108 and figured I could get it down to around 1020, but I would rather finish under 1010 ideally 1008. Maybe I would be better going with my original pitch of Wyeast 3724 and adding some candy sugar towards the end of primary instead during the boil, it would bring my SG down slightly but help attenuation on a whole.

Or blending the yeast into the original starter and going from there.

Mash low. Around 148F. Replace some of your grains with {gasp} flaked rice, like The Bruery does in their tripel. (and yet they aren't an adjunct brewer, guess that's why they pay BA dues)