How do I calulate my pressure and line length?

Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:24 am

I force carbed an amber and let it set for 24 hours. I have a picnic tap on a 4.5 ft 3/16" line, set at 10 lbs and I get all foan. I have to bleed it down to about 5-6 lbs to pour a decent glass. Now that my keg is getting low, the beer seems to be getting flat. What am I doing wrong? Thanks!

Sorry wrong forum. I guess I could say that I was drunk! I reposted in the Kegging forum.
Last edited by Captain Kangabrew on Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Captain Kangabrew
 
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Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:25 am

Some good references are:

Brewing Network Archive
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archiv ... -24-05.mp3

Web Page
http://ceisites.com/balance.html

Basically, there are two things you need to worry about: the carbonation of your beer and the correct velocity of your beer as it goes through your beer tap so it does not foam.

The problem you have is that your system is not balanced to achieve both items listed above. When your system has the correct pressure to get the right amount of carbonation in your beer it foams out the tap. And when your system has the correct pressure to pour properly it does not maintain the correct carbonation in your beer.

Ideally, you want to set your pressure to get the correct amount of carbonation based on the type of beer and the temperature the beer is being stored at (most beer books have charts for this or promash can give you the information). This is because your beer wants to be at equilibrium with its environment. Given varying amounts of temperature and pressure of CO2, your beer with be at equilibrium with different amounts of dissolved CO2 in your beer. By lowering the pressure on your beer you caused it to be come in equilibrium with its environment by lowering the amount of dissolved CO2 it has.

Now the pressure required to keep your beer carbonated properly in the keg will often force to beer to have a turbulent flow (think of a river through a set of rapids) as it goes through your beer tap and that causes foaming. So you want to have less pressure at your tap to make sure your beer has laminate flow (think of a river moving calmly). This is achieved by reducing the energy (kinetic and potential) of your beer as it makes its way from your keg to your tap. In fluid mechanics classes this referred to as “head loss” (it has nothing to do with beer head, but rather refers to energy loss in units of elevation based potential energy) and is based on Bernoulli’s theorem with added friction losses if you want to study further.

So what you want to figure out is how to achieve this “head loss”. The first “head loss” is achieved though the height difference from the top of your beer to the center of your tap (it is the top of your beer, but as the top of your beer changes as you empty the keg I would suggest you use an average by using center of your beer when your keg is full). Simply, the larger the difference between your tap and your keg the more "head loss" happens. The other “head loss” you need to think about is the friction losses of your beer lines. Again simply, the longer your line the more “head loss” happens.

The link I gave you above is an over simplification of Bernoulli’s equation. It is not accurate from an engineering standpoint but is accurate enough for home kegging. Basically if you are using 3/16” beer line, the length of line needed to cause the “head loss” is:

L = (P– H*0.5)/2.7

Where:
L = Length of beer line required
P = pressure in your keg as read off your regulator
H = height difference between the center of your beer in a full keg and your tap

Hope this helps you out.
Camel
 
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Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:07 am

And temperature!

HBD has a great primer (nyuk nyuk!) on kegging and draught line balancing:
http://hbd.org/clubs/franklin/public_html/docs/balance.html
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Ziggy-san
 
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Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:19 pm

Thanks for the great info. Seems like maybe my beer line is too long and/or my pressure is too low. According to the calulations, a beer carbed at 2.3 volumes of CO2 at 40F should have 10.10 lbs set on the regulator.

With a 1 ft drop from serving level to the center of the keg and 2.7 beer line resistance (3/16 ID tubing), my beer line should be around 3.2 to 3.5 ft long.

I do have a follow-up question. What do you do if you have a stout, a wheat and a pale ale all on tap at the same time? Can you make adjustments with a manifold that has check valves or do you make a compromise and serve them all at the same pressure? I realize I could do this with separate requlators, but I'm not at this point yet.
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Captain Kangabrew
 
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Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:46 am

Captain Kangabrew wrote:Thanks for the great info. Seems like maybe my beer line is too long and/or my pressure is too low.

Hmmm, normally if your beer is foaming out of the tap when the pressure in your keg is at what it should be for carbonation that means your lines are too short. If you are trying to pressure your keg at 10 psi with 4.5 ft of 3/16” tubing it should not be foaming.

There are other things that can cause your beer to foam also like dip tubs, lines, or even your faucet clogged with sentiment. Or you are not opening your faucet all the way.

Captain Kangabrew wrote:I do have a follow-up question. What do you do if you have a stout, a wheat and a pale ale all on tap at the same time? Can you make adjustments with a manifold that has check valves or do you make a compromise and serve them all at the same pressure? I realize I could do this with separate regulators, but I'm not at this point yet.

Yes you can have many beers with different carbonation levels with something like this:
http://www.morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=16195
Or you can make a compromise and serve them all at the same pressure. Or you can pressurize each keg to the pressure you want and not keep the tank attached to the kegs but you need to re pressurize your kegs after you have drunk some beer out of each.
Camel
 
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Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:11 am

Capn', Is your LINE filling with foam, or is it foaming out of the tap? What Camel says is right. With longer line you should be having SLOW pouring problems, not foaming problems. Actually, 4.5' is just fine.

Is it possible your regulator is miscalibrated? Maybe your temp is off? You said the beer is flat as the keg is ending. Is it also thin, meaning watery? maybe you had an infection??
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Speyedr
 
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