My Pils has "full" perceived mouthfeel

[Kazi the Younger]

I've been brewing pils for awhile with different malts and yeast wondering why no matter what I do it always comes out tasting slightly "full" compared to german lagers like Warsteiner, dinkle Acher.

I use a variety of yeast - 2124, 34/70, and the budvar yeast. All of them get my a nice FG around 1.005-1.007. Yet in each batch they always seem to have this rounded mouthfeel. My Malt bill is usually 100% Best Pils Malt or 50% Briess r-row, 50% Pils. I filter my water, then adjust with calcium sulfate and calcium chloride.

I've also brewed batches with just carbon filtering and no water adjustment and the same thing happens: I get great attenuation and flocculation, but the beer ends up with this FULLNESS in the mouthfeel. It's just never the right mouthfeel compared to those german examples.

Any idea what they do to get it right? Protein rest maybe? I usually just mash low @ 146, then ramp up to 155. I've heard that a protein rest can help thin out a beer even if the malt is well modified. Haven't tried that yet.

[spiderwrangler]

What do you carbonate to?

[Kazi the Younger]

I don't measure co2 volumes, but fair to say it's pretty carbonated.

[brewinhard]

How long are you lagering yours for? What efficiency for your mash do you achieve? Maybe the "roundness" you describe is just a beer that is produced fresher since you are making it at home and it hasn't spent time on the shelf aging. Have you let any of the batches lager for a while (2 mos) and see if they still have that "rounded" mouthfeel to them?

If you have a lower efficiency from your mash, this might also lead to more malt coming through in flavor and aroma as compared to a commercial brewery that gets 88-90% efficiency. Just a couple thoughts.

[Quin]

Are adjusting your mash and boil pH?

Gordon Biersch adjusts their mash and boil pH to 5.6 using lactic acid. Getting your mash and boil pH dialed in can add to a beer's "brightness" which might offset a fullness or flat taste.

[Kbar]

If you have a lower efficiency from your mash, this might also lead to more malt coming through in flavor and aroma as compared to a commercial brewery that gets 88-90% efficiency. Just a couple thoughts.

Brewinhard: tell me more on how the lower efficiency of your mash can effect mouthfeel. I run around 65%. Thanks!

[brewinhard]

If you have a lower efficiency from your mash, this might also lead to more malt coming through in flavor and aroma as compared to a commercial brewery that gets 88-90% efficiency. Just a couple thoughts.

Brewinhard: tell me more on how the lower efficiency of your mash can effect mouthfeel. I run around 65%. Thanks!

Well as an example I brew a house ordinary bitter. I typically get 80% efficiency (set in to pro-mash) on my system. When I would brew this beer at that efficiency, the beer came out great and tasted fine. The last couple times I have made this recipe I experimented with no-sparge brewing which lowered my efficiency to about 65%. The most recent beers made by no-sparging have a "fuller", maltier, aroma and flavor. Kind of like what I get when I open a fresh sack of malt. Even though the beers are attenuating the same, I still feel like the lower efficiency ones tend to taste fuller and maltier on the palate then the ones made by fly-sparging the way I used to.

[mabrungard]

I've been brewing pils for awhile with different malts and yeast wondering why no matter what I do it always comes out tasting slightly "full" compared to german lagers like Warsteiner, dinkle Acher.

I use a variety of yeast - 2124, 34/70, and the budvar yeast. All of them get my a nice FG around 1.005-1.007. Yet in each batch they always seem to have this rounded mouthfeel. My Malt bill is usually 100% Best Pils Malt or 50% Briess r-row, 50% Pils. I filter my water, then adjust with calcium sulfate and calcium chloride.

I've also brewed batches with just carbon filtering and no water adjustment and the same thing happens: I get great attenuation and flocculation, but the beer ends up with this FULLNESS in the mouthfeel. It's just never the right mouthfeel compared to those german examples.

Any idea what they do to get it right? Protein rest maybe? I usually just mash low @ 146, then ramp up to 155. I've heard that a protein rest can help thin out a beer even if the malt is well modified. Haven't tried that yet.

A low to modest level of mineralization is a typical hallmark of Boh and German Pils. You mention 'filtering'. I assume that this is not RO filtering. Regular filtering and an activated carbon filter does nothing for the ion concentrations. So for this water, I'm hoping you know what the ion content of the tap water is and that you are not overdosing the water with those gypsum and calcium chloride additions. The evidence that even the tap water with no mineral additions has that mouthfeel may suggest that the tap water has higher mineralization than those German examples cited.

Its also possible that the alkalinity of that tap water is too high for that Pils grist. If that is the case, either acid malt or a liquid acid addition might help the mash pH fall into the desirable range of 5.3 to 5.5 (room temp measurement).

Check out Bru'n Water to get a better handle on what to do with the water. Do visit the Water Knowledge page on the Bru'n Water website to read up on brewing water chemistry.

Enjoy!