All my pale ales are tasting the same...

[ScrandyAndy]

So I am having an issue of all of my pale ales tasting strikingly similar. For example...I just brewed these two recipes and they are almost exactly the same! I wanted to learn more about hop character so I did some single hops, but they taste so much the same the difference is minimal. Check out the recipes and tell me if i'm crazy...

Citra Pale
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 12.0 %
11 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Rahr) (1.8 SRM) Grain 1 88.0 %
0.60 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 5 8.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 4.5 IBUs
0.40 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 1.4 IBUs
12.00 Items Fermcap - S (Boil 60.0 mins) Other 4 -
0.60 tsp Gelatin (Secondary 5.0 days) Fining 13 -
1.20 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 -
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 12 -
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 9.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60. Hop 3 22.9 IBUs




Cascade Pale
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8.0 oz White Wheat (Rahr) (3.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.0 %
11 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt - 2 Row (Rahr) (1.8 SRM) Grain 2 90.0 %
12.0 oz Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.0 %
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 17.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 13.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 6.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop Seven Days Hop 8 0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 9 -
12.00 Items Fermcap - S (Boil 60.0 mins) Other 6 -
1.20 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -

[mabrungard]

Your problem is right there at the end of your listing. 5.2 Stabilizer is a beer flavor killer (unless you like sodium) and it creates an excessively high mash pH that further dulls beer flavor.

Stop using 5.2 and learn what your brewing water actually needs. That is the way to develop proper beer flavor.

Bru'n Water has the tools to help you understand what to do and how to do it. The first step is to obtain information on your water's content.

[Stinkfist]

I agree, I think it must be a water issue

[ScrandyAndy]

That's good to know. I can honestly say the flavor at 12 days of fermentation was GREAT. And it seemed to drop off from there and lost most of its dry hop character. I have a west coast red going right now that tastes delicious at day 10. So we'll see if it follows the same drop off?

Thanks...more replies would be great!

[TastyMcD]

In my opinion, balanced pale ales are better than those that are hop forward because you get to taste the malt complexity. That's, of course, assuming you have malt complexity. I like your choice of Rahr but just C60 by itself is not going to give you a very interesting malt character. I'd consider some Vienna, Munich, Rye, Wheat, or Biscuit. My personal preference on pales is to use two base malts for complexity.

Tasty

[ScrandyAndy]

Tasty, thanks for the response. Being new to all grain, and being able to mess around with things a bit more, I was going towards doing some real simple batches so that as I go I can learn what all my ingredient changes are doing. I guess maybe all the hops that I chose in both batches are just that similar that these beers will lend the same finished flavor in general?

All this talk has gotten me going on really digging into learning about water which has gotten me overwhelmed right now.

[EL TIZZO]

yup, your hopping schedules are quite similar and in my opinion giving you the same flavor...sounds like a "house flavor" developing...I had one within a few brews...I don't consider it to be a bad thing as long as there's no contamination...means i'm consistent...abide by the dude, tasty's, words and try mixing up your malt profile a bit more with some more interesting specialty malts...i did a similar thing when i started all grain and I did learn a bit but looking back I would say just brew tried and true recipes and tweak them when you see it fit...keep brewing...you'll get there

[ScrandyAndy]

Thanks for the input. Yea, and I just dug into some old recipes, and all my notes are good towards darker beers...so I know when I've got the malt profile I'm hittin it.

Speaking of tried and true...I'm doing a Janet's Brown Tomorrow!!!!