Low efficiency

[tominsj]

So my brother and I have been working on a recipe for an American Ale for a few batches now and the problem we run into is efficiency. We are at %65ish and we did not hit our SG in pre boil or post boil. Wondering if anyone has suggestions to increase efficiency?

We mash at a strike temp of 159 F, use approximately 7 gal and fly sparge with an additional 3 gal.

Using 12 lbs of 2 row (north american) as the main grain, we feel we should be getting 1.080 but usually end up around 1.60.

Is our strike temp to high? Should we sparge at a lower or higher temp than our strike?

Thanks in advance.

[sam]

What is your batch size? If your target end of boil (batch size) volume is 5 gallons you are right on w/ 1.060 @70% efficiency, provided you end your boil with that volume.

"Using 12 lbs of 2 row (north american) as the main grain, we feel we should be getting 1.080 but usually end up around 1.60"

For this to take place provided you are going for a 5 gal batch your efficiency would have to be in the 90s, which is way to high.

Is your target mash temp 159? Or is that the temp of the water before you mash in? Because typically, especially for an American ale, (I assume pale ale or any other in that category for that matter) 159 is too high to be mashing at, and is more than likely two low to have as your initial strike water temp. Well then again you said you are mashing w/ 7 gallons. That is a mash ratio of 2.33 qts/lb which is also WAY TO high. You should be in the 1 to 1.5 qts per lb range. But without knowing your entire recipe, its hard to tell however even with specialty grains your mash ratio would still probably be to high.

In my opinion it seems like your water volumes of 7 gallons to mash with and 3 gallons to sparge with should be reversed.

Although for what I calculated w/ my software it seems as though you are hitting a 70% efficiency which is what I shoot for.

As for your question of "Is our strike temp to high? Should we sparge at a lower or higher temp than our strike?"
Your efficiency is probably not related to the temperatures of either the mash or the sparge. If the temp of your mash is 159, then like i said above that is probably too high for that style of beer (or any for that matter). It seems you are aiming to attain an extremely high efficiency, which is probably not possible and you dont want any ways for your beer.

From what I can tell with the details you have listed. Your mash temp is a bit high, and you are mashing with an extremely high ratio, try bringing that down into the range I stated above, and increasing the volume that you sparge with accordingly. I batch sparge so i usually hit around 70% efficiency, but fly sparging you could probably expect to see around 75%.

[dmtaylor]

Always check the crush before anything else. It's almost always the crush. If your LHBS crushes the grain for you, ask them to mill it twice next time. If you're milling it yourself, set the mill tighter.

Also you *might* not be using enough grain. You're going for a 5-gallon batch, right? If you've only got 12 point something pounds of grain, that ain't enough for a 1.080 brew, no matter how awesome your crush is, unless you're boiling it down to 4 gallons or something. I'd bump 'er up to 15 pounds, with extra water additions also to account for the extra grain.

If these 2 things ain't the solution, I'm surprised.

[Ozbrewer]

I agree with dmtaylor with regard to the crush, also how sure of the quality of the grain are you.

As a side note, i actually found the brews I was making when i was getting 70% were much better tasting than when I was getting 90%,

The other option to boost it a little is a decoction mash.

[tominsj]

I was going off of the efficiency that Pro-Mash was telling me, according to the program I should be getting 1.080 from the 12lbs plus like 3 lbs of crystal.

And thanks I was wondering if perhaps my water was to hot, yes, my target mash temp was 159, so seems to be a bit high.

I think part of my problem is that I am not getting all the grain utilized.

[keelanfish]

7 gallons of water with 12 lbs of grain is a really thin mash. Typically I shoot for 1.25 to 1.3 quarts of water per pound of grain. With an initial infusion of 7 gallons, you're at 2.33 qt/lb. I've never mashed that thin before. The combination of that and your high mash temperature may be effecting your enzyme's ability to break down the starches.

[dmtaylor]

I wouldn't rely so much on ProMash to determine your anticipated efficiency either. The software is no doubt assuming your efficiency to be too high. Efficiency and desired gravity are inversely related, i.e., higher desired gravity will get you lower efficiency, and vice-versa. For instance, when I make 1.080 beers, I know from experience that my efficiency will suffer and I'll only get around 70% max. Conversely, when I make beers in the 1.040s, my efficiency is way up around 90%. I doubt ProMash is smart enough to have this all figured out.

[anday6]

I recently changed my equipment (direct-fired MT) and after just a few batches that span a decent range of gravities 1.050-1.070ish I've been able to get a good idea what my system will convert to sugars. I just used my measured gravity readings and played with the efficiency value in the software (BeerSmith) until it matched my equipments efficiency (80% in the mid-range). I'll be doing a high gravity beer soon and that should give me an idea of what the drop-off will be for my system.

As far as I can tell, this is probably how most people use their experience to figure out the values for their equipment.

Hope that helps.


Primary: BCS West Coast Blaster, BCS Munich Madness (steam yeast)
Bottles: Belgian Golden, Am. BW, Double Barrel, Coconut Wheat, Saison Pale Ale