My Saison, Belgian golden strong and APA. fermentation help!

[Lion]

I been brewing a batch a week for the past month. I started with a Saison 08/06 a Belgian Golden Strong (that have piloncillo and its darker in color) and and APA.
I took gravity reading on all my 3 carboys. My Saison its on the 21st day of primary fermentation ( I believe in Jamil's word of not second ferment) and it has only dropped from 1.064 to 1.022, the airlock its still bubbling, its fermenting for the past 19 days at 80F from 69F on the first 2 days. I want this to drop lower than .010 if in another week I don't see a noticeable drop i will transfer and maybe re-pitch.

My BGS 08/13 bubbled like crazy on the blow-off tube and then from one day to the other died completely maybe a bubble every 30 secs. I moved it to a room at 80F with the saison and it picked up a little but i haven't seen too much activity lately. i took a gravity reading and its 1.012 from 1.074 , again i want this lower than 1.010.

in the other hand my apa which went 2 points lower than what I wanted. it was supposed to be stopped at 1.012 and its 1.010 which i dont think it'll be a problem
this will get transfer in order to be dry hopped.

any comments are really appreciated.

Lion

[PSUHomebrewer]

How did you pitch the saison and bgs? With them being higher gravity you need a large starter or repitch a cake. If you didn't use a large starter (for my american barleywine I made a 4l starter and added onto a cake) you may want to pitch a bit more yeast, preferably one that you gear up a little, doesn't have to be a full starter.

[BDawg]

For some reason, the Saison yeast always likes to stick around 1.030 give or take. I'm not surprised that yours is over 20 days and still going. I've heard cases where it stuck there for a month then they kicked back in and dried the beer right out. Just give it time and keep it warm. If you can close the door or add a heater or something to get the temp up to 85-87, that would help too.

Patience is rewarded in these cases.

HTH-

[maxwell]

Sometimes gently rousing the yeast by moving the carboy can help get a stuck fermentation going again. I don't know which saison yeast you're using, but some of them do not like rapid changes in temperature - instead of going from 69 to 80 in one day, next time you could try increasing 1 degree C per day.

[brewinhard]

Sounds like you are doing just fine. Saison yeasts and golden strong yeasts can take a bit of time to fully finish out. Be patient and keep the heat on at least 80 deg F! Give them another couple weeks or so before checking the gravity.

BTW, I have had saisons take 5-6 weeks in primary to fully dry out even kept at 80-90 deg F.

[kim]

+1 on using a starter for saisons... I haven't had a problem with a stuck ferment using starters, and also making sure that there's a good amount of cane sugar in the recipe (e.g., 9-10%). I've also often made starters using two different types of saison yeasts (e.g., WLP 565 and WLP 568, or blending Wyeast and WLP). Don't know if that also helps prevent the stuck ferment.
Also, have you kept it at 80 consistently, without much temperature fluctuation? If the temp goes up and down, that can also mess with the fermentation.

Kim

[Lion]

How did you pitch the saison and bgs? With them being higher gravity you need a large starter or repitch a cake. If you didn't use a large starter (for my american barleywine I made a 4l starter and added onto a cake) you may want to pitch a bit more yeast, preferably one that you gear up a little, doesn't have to be a full starter.

For the Saison I used 1 package (non-starter) of Wyeast Belgian Saison 3724. For the BGS I Pitched a package of Wyeast High Trappist 3787 and Belgian ale 1214.

[Lion]

Sounds like you are doing just fine. Saison yeasts and golden strong yeasts can take a bit of time to fully finish out. Be patient and keep the heat on at least 80 deg F! Give them another couple weeks or so before checking the gravity.

BTW, I have had saisons take 5-6 weeks in primary to fully dry out even kept at 80-90 deg F.

Yeah the airlock its back to tiny bubblng after i took out the sample for checking the gravity. I'll leave it in there for 2 more weeks or so.

thanks for the help!