Another pH question - initial water pH too low?

[mickp]

In my continuing quest to come up with a simple, effective process regarding pH, I've come across another question.

I use Ozarka spring Water typically - the well at the house here is frankly unpalatable (so hard you could build a wall with it and smells of sulphur), and the Ozarka spring water is readily available and has chemical analysis posted on line. Anyway, since getting the pH meter and becoming an apostle of AJ's KISS philosophy (one tsp Calcium Chloride per 5 gal plus saurmalt etc, etc), my mash pH's have been coming in a bit low (5.1, 5.2).
So, when I brewed on Saturday my brain finally realized that it might be good to take some additional readings.
The pH of the untreated water (the Ozarka) was 6.6.
I added half the "AJ amount" (1tsp CaCl to 10 gals) and it came down to 6.1.
I left out the sauermalt (actually brewing Bugs oatmeal raisin Amber), and the mash pH was 5.1 and down to 5.0 by mash out.

So, I check the Ozarka data sheet and, lo, the pH of the spring water is listed at 5.6-6.3. It seems that this is a perhaps a bit too low. Now, I don't want to not add any CaCl at all, as I figure that would risk insufficient calcium for yeast health. So, I have two options - add carbonates or use the Ozarka Drinking Water instead of the spring water (which probably amounts to the same thing, pH 7.0-7.5). (I guess another option would be too add the Calcium to the boil rather than the mash).

So, to get to my real questions...what should a good base water (pre-adjustment) look like regarding pH. I think AJ uses RO water...what is the pH of that? Should I expect to be starting with water closer to pH 7 than 6? All other things being equal would the "drinking water" (pH 7, "calcium hardness = 27") be better then the spring water (pH 6 and "calcium hardness = 6")?

Thanks dudes.

[Jidas]

Well your mash pH looks fine, the base water pH really doesn't matter that much. The water will fluctuate because there is little to buffer the pH and adding just a little acid or base will make a large difference in pH. Your grains have the buffering capacity to bring the pH down to where it should be (beer really makes itself). Wait a few minutes once you add grains then check the pH and make adjustments if you need to.

Hope this helps

[Datamike]

I agree that your PH is *probably* fine. You don't mention exactly when you take a ph reading, or at what temp. If your reading 5-5.1 at or about mash temp, that will probably come up to 5.3-5.5 as the sample cools.

Michael

[mickp]

Ah, yes. Sorry. The pH is taken on a cooled sample ("room temperature") with a calibrated meter. On my last brew session it was 5.1 about 15 minutes into the mash and 5.0 after about 50 minutes or so. I realize it's not super low, but that is based on reduced CaCl additions to the water... I was aiming for that 5.4 range and it also just made me curious as to the typical starting pH (like, for RO water).
I might just experiment with using the other water anyway next time. The carbonate levels are still pretty darn low. I'm unsure what causes the spring water to have that low pH.

Thanks for the replies!

[bufordsbest]

as others have indicated i don't think the initial water ph plays too big of a role, the Residual Alkalinity will play a bigger role in final mash ph.

i'd try using Bru'n water to estimate your final mash ph and then confirm the estimations with your ph meter.

tg

[Docjowles]

How reliable are the pH strips you can buy in homebrew shops (don't have a brand name handy, sorry)? I bought a pack but the readings I get just seem way off. My city's water department reports our pH as about 8 at the tap (granted this was last published in 2009) but my pH strips read something nutty like 5 at room temp. There's just no way tap water would come out at a pH of 5, right? It would taste like lemon juice.

My mash pH after cooling to room temp routinely comes out at sub-5 according to these strips. I was worried, but after the weird plain tap water results I think the strips just suck. I am getting awful mash efficiency (sub 60%) which is why I started measuring this shit. What do you think, BN Army?

[Datamike]

How reliable are the pH strips you can buy in homebrew shops (don't have a brand name handy, sorry)? I bought a pack but the readings I get just seem way off. My city's water department reports our pH as about 8 at the tap (granted this was last published in 2009) but my pH strips read something nutty like 5 at room temp. There's just no way tap water would come out at a pH of 5, right? It would taste like lemon juice.

My mash pH after cooling to room temp routinely comes out at sub-5 according to these strips. I was worried, but after the weird plain tap water results I think the strips just suck. I am getting awful mash efficiency (sub 60%) which is why I started measuring this shit. What do you think, BN Army?

...not very reliable. Get yourself a good PH meter and learn to calibrate and use it. It will improve your brewing immensely. It's also useful for discerning when your starsan is no longer useful.

You can get a nice meter for around $100 or so. Do a search here or at homebrewtalk.com. Milwaukee and Hanna are popular brands. I have one of each and don't find any appreciable difference, but the Milwaukee has a bigger display which is easier on my old eyes.

Once you have it, you can perform test mashes, and measure your PH levels through the entire brewing process. You'll gain a ton of insight for a relatively modest outlay. Much more informative IMO than dicking around with spreadsheets. I've even taken my meter to homebrew comps to find correlations between winning entries and PH. Interesting stuff!

Brew on brother!

Michael