Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:33 pm

Sweet - I am so glad there have been so many responses to this - this is why the BN is my un-official brew club. I asked my LHBS if they had any ideas today, and they weren't familiar with the beer!

SO - I listened to the Jamil Schwarzbier episode again today, and I think the carafa special could also be used for the dark - (?)

This X-File is getting close to bieng solved - I am totally in for trying this and having it ready by May! I am on my third all-grain, and am planning an APA this weekend (my first recipe formulation thanks to Ray Daniels) - After I nail down my process, I plan to do this one next.

Here is my question - when brewing this one, would you add the black grains at the end of the mash to avoid any astringency? Also - best/cheapest temp control for the ferment? I have an Ice Cube setup, but I think this beer's taste really depends on the yeast and fermentation temps... I would hate to send one in for tasting if it isn't perfect!

Thanks so much for all the ideas!

Keep on posting any other ideas - this process has taught me a TON about recipe formulation - now on to experimenting in the brew garage.

OH - where can you get grains of paradise, and how do you crush them???

PEACE - WOOD
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wood
 
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Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:55 am

wood wrote:Here is my question - when brewing this one, would you add the black grains at the end of the mash to avoid any astringency?

That is what a lot of folks recommend. I keep forgetting to do that, but have never had any astringency problems.

OH - where can you get grains of paradise, and how do you crush them???


I get them at my LHBS. You can also get them on line. Some folks use black peppercorns, but I don't know about the amounts to use or how the flavor matches. I use a cheap mortar and pestle I picked up at a mexican grocery, but an electric spice grinder would also work.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company
Bugeater Brewing Company
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Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:14 am

Wood,

Carafa would be fine, just get the darkest one (Carafa III I think). The "Special" only implies that it does not have the husk, which is the part that causes the astringency. As far as I know ALL Carafa is "special" in that manner. I think debittered black is the same thing, just from Dingman's, and a bit darker than the darkest Carafa. You want the darkest one you can get because you want to add as little as possible for color only.
To that end, you could add the Carafa (or DB) at the end of the mash, but I don't think it will be necessary as long as you are using a huskless black grain AND you are using 8oz or less for 5 gallons.

As for the GOP, I use a Mortar and Pestle too and crush the shit out of it, but you can use any means you want to get them cracked.

For temp control, you need to keep this one WARM not cool. Over 65f should be fine depending on the yeast you use. If you can get a small heating pad like the ones they use for reptile tanks you can use that in the Ice Cube and just keep an eye on it. You could also just stick it to the fermenter and it should give you about 10f - 15f over ambient.

My proposal is that we send them to each other, AND into the BN. No one's expecting perfection. I just want to use this opportunity to get a good idea of what works for this brew since it has eluded me since I started brewing. It is also one that a lot of people seem to want a recipe for, and most recipes have NOT taken the brewer's advice (Matt) into account.

Rob
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Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:04 pm

Thanks, Speyedr -

I like your idea for sending it around - you mentioned that you can't get 1554 in PA - I am in California and get this beer locally from my shitty little grocery store (I live in the foothils of the Sierra Nevadas...)

Feel free to email me and I will try to send you a few 1554's in the mail for you to try out - email me at:

adwod@gmail.com

I need practice sending beer in the mail anyway...

I am this close to getting my recipe together - if we do this, I want to try something different between you and brewbum's recipe so as to further differentiate the experiment...

sweet stuff - I am strangely excited about trying this and getting feedback... call me a geek, but I do love this kind of stuff.

PEACE - Andy
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Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:46 am

I think I am up for this as my next brew, maybe next month, we will see.

I think maybe we should jointly send in the recipe with an article to BYO as well.

Does that sound like a good idea??
Nate
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Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:11 am

wood wrote:Thanks, Speyedr -
Feel free to email me and I will try to send you a few 1554's in the mail for you to try out


Hey Andy, I think I was unclear. I have had this beer many times and I LOVE it. I used to live outside Denver and was there when this went from a seasonal offering to a regular. I was one of the people that begged for it.

Now that I live in PA I cannot get it anymore and so if we do a side-by-side I would just want one to compare to instead of relying on memory.

Nate - I think the BYO idea is a good one, but we should wait until we have tried each others and we all agree on a recipe, brew it and then get corroborating agreement on the final recipe from a third party, like the Brewcasters (don't sue me... please...)..

It's hard work, but I'm up for it..
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Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:47 am

Speyedr wrote:
wood wrote:Thanks, Speyedr -
Feel free to email me and I will try to send you a few 1554's in the mail for you to try out


Hey Andy, I think I was unclear. I have had this beer many times and I LOVE it. I used to live outside Denver and was there when this went from a seasonal offering to a regular. I was one of the people that begged for it.

Now that I live in PA I cannot get it anymore and so if we do a side-by-side I would just want one to compare to instead of relying on memory.

Nate - I think the BYO idea is a good one, but we should wait until we have tried each others and we all agree on a recipe, brew it and then get corroborating agreement on the final recipe from a third party, like the Brewcasters (don't sue me... please...)..

It's hard work, but I'm up for it..


Exactly my idea Rob, the point being for the article would the formulation and collaboration that it took to nail it down. It might be fun to see if we could even get the guy from NB involved in a taste test or review of the recipe. I might email Chris Colby and see what he says.
Nate
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Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:18 pm

I like the idea of contributing to BYO - that would be the type of article I would be interested in as a relatively new all-grain brewer just getting into recipe formulation. A lot of the articles in that publication are fantastic, but sometimes simply stick to the on the surface info, rather than getting right down to the dirty details. ( I am thinking of the balanced recipe article from the latest issue...I need the pragmatic approach.)

Let me know what I need to do...

Also - I brewed my third all grain APA this weekend, and in doing so I figured out why my last one was so "astringent"... I looked at my brewing notes and ran it through Promash - I got "creative" with the hops...added FWH, then 60, 40, 20, and 10 min additions without calculating the IBU's... The Porter I was trying ended up with a calculated 53.3 ibu at a OG of only 1.052...What I thought was bitter astringency was just bitterness over the top. (BU GU ration of 1.025...ugh) I was a little freaked out to try the 1554 recipe because of this, but now I say screw it - I have learned my lesson of experimenting, and am ready to brew again.

looks like this weekend or next (hopefully) I will get the stuff for this brew.

One last thing - the fermentation...I have never used a lager yeast...I want to do a starter and am wondering what temp the starter should go at. Also - how long should this ferment if I use the WL Southern German lager yeast, (I want to try it at around 65 degrees F)...

Interesting stuff.

Thanks again, keep the advice on this coming!

Wood
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