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 Post subject: Re: Using a propane burner inside a garage
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:30 pm
Posts: 133
Location: New Albion, State of Jefferson
stadelman wrote:
Other than the obvious fire issue, is the main safety issue with using a propane burner in the garage carbon monoxide?

I'm cracking the garage door and feel like I'm getting enough ventilation, but I'm thinking about getting a carbon monoxide detector if it would help.



Carbon Monoxide is a colorless, odorless and poisons gas which accumulates on the hemoglobin (the oxygen carrying portion of your blood cells) at twice the rate of oxygen. The more that you are exposed to CO, the more that you will become sensitive to it throughout your lifetime.
Without proper ventilation, CO will accumulate at the floor level as soon as the exhaust from the burner cools and will pool in low areas and areas without air circulation. If you have children, they will be at much greater danger simply because they are shorter and will inhale the CO near the floor.
I respond to CO incidents and you would be surprised how quickly CO can accumulate to very dangerous or lethal levels.
Keep the doors open and allow the CO to drain out of garage. Be careful, the stuff is real bad and you won’t know it until it is too late.


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 Post subject: Re: Using a propane burner inside a garage
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 249
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA
Brewing should not put your life at risk! If it is too cold to brew with the door completely open and cross ventilation why take the risk? If you have to have a device to tell you when to run that is too risky for me! Just delay brewing until the spring and buy some good microbrews to get you through the winter.

_________________
Private First Class - Philly Division

Drinking:
Tasty APA
DFH 60 Min
CYBI Dad's Little Helper
Black Velveteen - Oatmeal Stout
Fermenting:
Barleywine
Lagering:
Notta
Next up:
brews for NHC
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 Post subject: Re: Using a propane burner inside a garage
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:30 am
Posts: 354
I'll get the garage door up and also get a carbon monoxide detector. I found one that also has "explosive gas detection" which is supposed to detect propane, for a few bucks more it may be worth it.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Using a propane burner inside a garage
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:01 pm
Posts: 199
Location: East Kingston, NH
I'm sure this sort of thinking has gotten many people in trouble but I'll ask anyway.

Why is it safe to run all 4 burners and the oven in a propane-fueled range indoors but its not safe to run one turkey fryer in doors? Has it got to do with the efficiency of combustion between the two appliances.

I heat the home with propane as well and the installer tells me it combusts completely and the exhaust only handles CO2 and water vapor (hmmm...wonder if I could harvest that for kegging?)


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 Post subject: Re: Using a propane burner inside a garage
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:30 am
Posts: 354
That's a great question.

I'm sure part of the reason a propane burner is a bit more dangerous is the fact that it's using flexible lines that have a better chance of leaking compared to a piped install. But, if you're checking for leaks what's the difference between the stove and the burner?

Spelt wrote:
I'm sure this sort of thinking has gotten many people in trouble but I'll ask anyway.

Why is it safe to run all 4 burners and the oven in a propane-fueled range indoors but its not safe to run one turkey fryer in doors? Has it got to do with the efficiency of combustion between the two appliances.

I heat the home with propane as well and the installer tells me it combusts completely and the exhaust only handles CO2 and water vapor (hmmm...wonder if I could harvest that for kegging?)


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 Post subject: Re: Using a propane burner inside a garage
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 249
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA
Spelt wrote:
I'm sure this sort of thinking has gotten many people in trouble but I'll ask anyway.

Why is it safe to run all 4 burners and the oven in a propane-fueled range indoors but its not safe to run one turkey fryer in doors? Has it got to do with the efficiency of combustion between the two appliances.

I heat the home with propane as well and the installer tells me it combusts completely and the exhaust only handles CO2 and water vapor (hmmm...wonder if I could harvest that for kegging?)


Ventilation, ventilation, ventilation!

I did not know they had propane fueled stoves and house heaters. But in both cases I would assume both appliances have properly sized ventilation systems.

_________________
Private First Class - Philly Division

Drinking:
Tasty APA
DFH 60 Min
CYBI Dad's Little Helper
Black Velveteen - Oatmeal Stout
Fermenting:
Barleywine
Lagering:
Notta
Next up:
brews for NHC
In the Funkhouse:
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 Post subject: Re: Using a propane burner inside a garage
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:08 am
Posts: 116
Location: MN
atomicpunk wrote:
I did not know they had propane fueled stoves and house heaters. But in both cases I would assume both appliances have properly sized ventilation systems.


Nearly all of rural America is heated by propane (the big white tanks). And lots of propane ranges are around. I believe it is because they are carefully designed to ensure complete combustion.
I know for propane ranges it is not a ventilation thing (i was looking at a house with a gas range and no range hood).
In theory no burner should produce CO but a poorly adjusted or dirty burner has the potential to create a lot of CO.


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 Post subject: Re: Using a propane burner inside a garage
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:20 pm
Posts: 249
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA
Learning something new everyday!!

Turns out a "properly" burning propane burner does not release CO, rather CO2. Key is properly burning. Leaks are still an issue as with any gas.

Found from another forum the follwing.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/safety- ... ors-51463/

I have copied the best response below.

I use (sometimes 2) propane burners indoors. One is 210,000 btu Banjo Burner and the other a 170,000btu generic burner. I use them both in my basement.

Here is my don't kill yourself with propane post:

DON'T BLOW YOUR A$$ UP BY USING A PROPANE DEVICE INDOORS! PROPANE WILL CREEP ACROSS THE FLOOR IF NOT BEING BURNED AND CAN IGNITE BY OTHER SOURCES OF FLAME(IE. W.H. PILOT LIGHT). KNOW THE SMELL OF PROPANE!

PROPANE MUST BE BURNED CLEANLY TO BE SAFE! BLUE FLAMES W/ YELLOW TIPS, OTHERWISE IT WILL GIVE OFF POISONOUS CARBON MONOXIDE! IF YOU SEE SOOT ON YOUR POT, YOU ARE POISONING THE AIR. (Propane when burned cleanly will produce carbon dioxide and water vapor)

DON'T BURN ALL OF THE OXYGEN OUT OF YOUR HOUSE AND ASPHYXIATE YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS! VENTILATION IS NECESSARY! CLEANLY BURNED PROPANE RELEASES CARBON DIOXIDE - NON-POISONOUS GAS THAT CAN DISPLACE OXYGEN CAUSING A HAZARD THAT CAN CAUSE DEATH.

OPEN FLAMES INDOORS HAVE THEIR OBVIOUS DANGERS! KEEP A FIRE EXTINGUISHER NEAR THE BURNER AT ALL TIMES AND DO NOT LEAVE A FLAME UNATTENDED. KEEP KIDS AND PETS AWAY.

Oh yeah and, NEW BURNERS WILL NEED TO BE "BURNED OFF" BEFORE BEING USED INDOORS AS NAUSEOUS GASES CAN RESULT!

I work professionally around LP gas constantly, usually in very confined areas. It is a very safe gas when used properly. If you are capable of brewing beer, you SHOULD be capable of working around Propane.

_________________
Private First Class - Philly Division

Drinking:
Tasty APA
DFH 60 Min
CYBI Dad's Little Helper
Black Velveteen - Oatmeal Stout
Fermenting:
Barleywine
Lagering:
Notta
Next up:
brews for NHC
In the Funkhouse:
empty


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