Questions about starter kits

[Mattress]

Ok I'm sure everyone has heard this before but I'm getting sucked in to the details of buying a starter kit. I want to start with 5 gallon extract batches, and I already have a 7.5 gal turkey fryer. So now I am shopping for kits and saving my bottles. Now, as far as the kits go I really wanted to get a glass carboy from the beginning (if I didnt I know I would want to upgrade right off the bat). The first one that grabbed me was Kit2 from Morebeer:

http://morebeer.com/view_product/15910/102142/Personal_Home_Brewery_%232_-_Deluxe

I liked the idea of the 6 gal carboy and the addition of the grain bags that I wont have to buy on top of a kit. Plus it fits into my price range. After looking a this online for a month or so and comparing to several similar kits, I had decided this was the one. That is until yesterday, when I got a catalog from Midwest and saw this kit:

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/ProdByID.aspx?ProdID=6351

Then I start thinking to myself, wow thats pretty good considering what you get. But when I look at the two glass carboys I realize that they are only 5 gal. So it sounds to me like all I could do with those is secondary fermentations.

So, now that my brain is roughly turned to oatmeal over thinking this out, I thought I would bring the questions to the forum. I'm just starting out. Listened about brewing here, read John Palmers book up through extract/specialty grains, and thats about it so far. I want to make roughly a batch a month, that should keep my drinking habits in line. But I also want to try some different things with additions and such (fruit, nuts, and the like) if me or the wife get the urge to try something.

So, if I pick up the morebeer kit with the bottling bucket and carboy, will I be kicking myself in the ass later because I dont have a secondary?

Next, can I make additions to a primary? or If I add something like a puree to the bottling bucket am I going to see any of that in the finished product?

Next, can I primary a 5 gal batch in a 5 gal carboy? Also, the kit with the two 5 gal carboys looks like I could have two batches at once, which sounds awesome. Am I right about the two batches at once?

Finally, out of the two kits, which seems like the best kit for the new brewer? Or any other kits you may know of. But the Midwest kit is getting close to critical mass for price at the moment.

I know thats a lot of questions for one post, but I figured I had to write them all down before they continued to confuse the hell out of me. Thanks for any help beforehand. I'll name my first brew after you.

Mattress
Swampeast Missouri Division

[BDawg]

Look closely-

The Midwest kit comes with 2 5 gal carboys AND a 6.5 gallon Plastic Fermenter AND a 6.5 gallon bottling bucket. So, you get a primary and 2 secondaries with the midwest kit.

Don't knock plastic primaries. They work well and are inexpensive. LOTS of guys here use them. As a starter kit, you can't go wrong with that Midwest kit. Later, you can add a 6.5 gal Glass carboy or another plastic primary if you wish.

The biggest downside to plastic primaries is that they DO scratch and you WILL need to change it out eventually. If you are very careful with it, that can be quite a ways down the road.

Now, many of us don't do "secondaries" any more (myself included). However, in my opinion, using a 2nd carboy as a brite tank before kegging/bottling helps the beer mature and condition and allows room for things such as clarifying with finings, etc. I normally ferment 2 weeks (or longer) in primary, then rack to a secondary brite tank for a week or 2 before kegging. Works great.

HTH-

[BlueLoon]

Really the midwest kit is nice. It is nice to have a second carboy when you want to get another batch going. You could use the glass carboys as primary and secondary if you did not want to scratch the plastic. I'd also order a couple carboy handles, they really help. Or get the better bottles. I heard many people rave about the better bottles but they can scratch. You could almost split this kit with a friend, maybe add another primary bucket. You may also want to upgrade to a bench capper, I did and never regretted it. Midwest also has a great deal going on EZ-cap swing top bottles right now.

[Mattress]

Does the Midwest kit seem like overkill for a batch a month brewer? I want to be able to cover all the different aspects, I've heard secondary fermentation is good for stouts and the like, so even though I'll tend to make more ales I want to be able to cover both directions. That and being able to add things throughout the process. Midwest also has a beginner kit thats close to the other but only one 5 gal glass, and no funnel, but everything else seems to be about the same. Here it is if anyone wants a look:

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/ProdByID.aspx?ProdID=3315

After listening to the cheap ass brewer show I figure I could find something (panty hose, , etc.) that I could use for grain bags.

[bcmaui]

After listening to the cheap ass brewer show I figure I could find something (panty hose, , etc.) that I could use for grain bags.

Bugeater likes picking up knee high panty hose type stockings at K-Mart, etc. I think he says you pay $2 per 3 pairs or something like that for his fine mesh hop bags.

I use nylon 5 gallon paint strainer bags from my local paint store for about $1.50 (but probably under $1.00 on the mainland). I cut the nylon tag off the side of the paint strainer and hang the edge of the bag over the rim of the pot and the lid holds it in place during the steep. Right after I'm done, I dump the grain in the corner of the garden (the birds eat it up pretty quickly and leave the husks for mulch), and then rinse out the nylon bag and clip it up to dry. After it is completely dry the next day, I throw it in a ziplock bag to keep it clean until next use. I've used the same steep bag 5 times in a row now and it still looks like new.

[BDawg]

the Midwest kit is NOT overkill. You'll use everything in there, and be going back for more later, trust us.

[Mattress]

That seems like the way to go then. I had my doubts about the need for 2 carboys off the bat, but I think you are right. And from what Ive heard the secondarys are good for additions as well, am I right? Now, the 5 gal carboys, are they only good for secondary fermentations on 5 gal batches or could I use one as a primary? Part of me wants to see whats going on throughout the process, must be the chemist in me.

[BDawg]

I think they are too small for primary, though some guys do use them. I think you'd lose too much beer doing a primary in them.