My Dubbel came out ok, but not good enough.What went wrong?

[Lupulin]

I can post you a reference recipe later when I get home of the last Dubbel I brewed and my water notes. That beer won the Blue Ribbon at the Minnesota State Fair this year in Belgian strong beers. I use all RO water and add back salts. You can use that to compare and see if you need to change anything.

With that report you should be adding some salts back to get your calcium level up at least.

[BigNastyBrew]

I use all RO water and add back salts.

I do the same. I love that approach.

grain: you ever try one of the spreadsheets out there? Some use Palmer's, but I like the EZ calculator sheet out there. Forgot the full name but I find it a bit easier to use for us non-spreadsheet kinda folks.

[grainman]

I can post you a reference recipe later when I get home of the last Dubbel I brewed and my water notes. That beer won the Blue Ribbon at the Minnesota State Fair this year in Belgian strong beers. I use all RO water and add back salts. You can use that to compare and see if you need to change anything

With that report you should be adding some salts back to get your calcium level up at least.

I added 3.7G gypsum, 6.3G Calcium Chloride. Some of those portions went into the mash for PH control, and the rest went into the boil. Actually 1.4G of gypsum and 2.4G of calcium chloride went into the mash and the rest of the salts went into the boil. I used the bru'n water program which showed the PH would be 5.2, but of course that is all predicated on wether or not I have the program setup right. I appreciate you sharing your water profile. That will give me a baseline to work from.

[Lupulin]

So...... I meant to post my recipe last night for you to reference, but my interwebs were down. I will try again tonight when I get home from work.

[Lupulin]

Batch Size: 10.50 gal
Boil Size: 12.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated Color: 20.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 17.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 86.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (1.8 SRM) Dry Extract 4.35 %
15.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 65.22 %
2.00 lb Belgian Munich Malt (5.5 SRM) Grain 8.70 %
1.00 lb Belgian Biscuit (23.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
1.00 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
18.00 gm Magnum [11.60 %] (75 min) Hops 11.8 IBU
28.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.70 %] (15 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
28.00 gm Saaz [3.20 %] (15 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
2.00 lb Candi Sugar, Amber (90.0 SRM) Sugar 8.70 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 20.00 lb
----------------------------
My Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Step Add 24.00 qt of water at 165.8 F 150.0 F



For this beer I used RO water and 1 tsp per 5 gallons of CaCl in the mash and the kettle. This made a perfect mash pH of ~5.2. This batch was split and fermented with the Rochefort and Westmalle strains, the Westmalle version took the blue ribbon at the MN state fair this year against 43 entries in the category(the MN state fair is one of the largest homebrew competitions in the country). Ferment was started at 64 and ramped up to 75 over 10 days. FG was 1.010.

[grainman]

Batch Size: 10.50 gal
Boil Size: 12.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated Color: 20.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 17.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 86.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (1.8 SRM) Dry Extract 4.35 %
15.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 65.22 %
2.00 lb Belgian Munich Malt (5.5 SRM) Grain 8.70 %
1.00 lb Belgian Biscuit (23.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
1.00 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
18.00 gm Magnum [11.60 %] (75 min) Hops 11.8 IBU
28.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.70 %] (15 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
28.00 gm Saaz [3.20 %] (15 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
2.00 lb Candi Sugar, Amber (90.0 SRM) Sugar 8.70 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 20.00 lb
----------------------------
My Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Step Add 24.00 qt of water at 165.8 F 150.0 F



For this beer I used RO water and 1 tsp per 5 gallons of CaCl in the mash and the kettle. This made a perfect mash pH of ~5.2. This batch was split and fermented with the Rochefort and Westmalle strains, the Westmalle version took the blue ribbon at the MN state fair this year against 43 entries in the category(the MN state fair is one of the largest homebrew competitions in the country). Ferment was started at 64 and ramped up to 75 over 10 days. FG was 1.010.

Thanks a million for the info. It looks like i need to up my calc chl for the mash by quite a bit. That looks like a nice recipe too... Glad to read you did well with it.

[BigNastyBrew]

Thanks a million for the info. It looks like i need to up my calc chl for the mash by quite a bit. That looks like a nice recipe too... Glad to read you did well with it.

Maybe you mentioned this earlier and I missed it, but have you listened to the Brew Strong waterganza shows they did a few years ago? I listen to them every now and then as a refresher. Always good info.

[grainman]

Thanks a million for the info. It looks like i need to up my calc chl for the mash by quite a bit. That looks like a nice recipe too... Glad to read you did well with it.

Maybe you mentioned this earlier and I missed it, but have you listened to the Brew Strong waterganza shows they did a few years ago? I listen to them every now and then as a refresher. Always good info.

Yes , I have but I need to listen to them again. There is so much info to digest, and there seems to be some conflicting info floating around about what types of grains lower the ph of the wort more. It seems as though in the past it was said that it had a direct correlation to color, but now the collective wisdom is moving away from that to certain types of grain acidify more than others, and they may not necessarily be dark grains. Plus during those shows nobody ever mentions PH with respect to batch sparging vs fly sparging, so that creates a little confusion for me.
One thing is for certain ..... good mash ph should be in the 5.2-5.5 range, and I guess the only way for me to truly find out where I'm at is to bite the bullet and plunk down $70 for a PH meter and do some dark brews to map out my PH range so I know what to add for water adjustments. If I do that, and my PH is good, and my dark beers are still astringent, then I will know to look elseware in my process.