Oxidized Hop Aromas/Flavors

Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:48 am

Hey all,

I sent this question in to feedback in hopes that they would discuss it during tomorrow's Boulder Beer Company show. I figured that I might be able to get some feedback from the BN Army as well.

I have heard Tasty talk about oxidized hops in APA's and IPA's. What are some descriptors that can be used to describe those flavors/aromas? I assume it is not the paper, carboard, stale compounds that you get from an oxidized beer.

Have you noticed oxidized beer notes? How do you describe them. I get it as slightly minty/medicinal. Am I off base, or describing it wrong?

Mills
:bnarmy:
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Re: Oxidized Hop Aromas/Flavors

Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:07 pm

A tiny bit catty, dull, and yes some papery notes do come through, as in wet uncured hops. At least thats what I get in my nose. I am curious to see what others say!
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Re: Oxidized Hop Aromas/Flavors

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:12 pm

Killer response from Nicole:


oxidized hop compounds get pretty confusing!
the paper/cardboard is from trans-2-nonenal, which comes from a precursor - an unsaturated fatty acid in malt.
hop compounds are a little trickier. The classic "old hop" aroma is isovaleric acid, which is an oxidized fatty acid from hops, and is the same compound found in foot sweat and in some "stinky" cheeses. So "cheesy" is a hop off flavor... the thing is this usually comes from beer MADE with old hops...
SO a really hop forward beer that is old/oxidized/exposed to heat will first of all, loose the intense and fresh complexity you might expect. The first aromas to go are those derived from dry hopping and very very late aroma additions - and happen to be the least water-solluble (makes sense, right?) monoterpnes such as myrcene, as well as compounds like linalool, limonene, and others don't want to stay in solution and will leave. They would rather stick to the cap, can liner, or glom onto something that isn't water and is precipitating out of solution.
After those other terpenes and terpenoids go... goodbye fresh pine needle, citrus, floral, and other aromas...
The bitterness derrived from isomerized alpha acids also start to subside.
Other flavor compounds start to oxidize and change. Beta acids and others have compounds that can become more bitter as they oxidize.
Oxidized flavor and aroma compounds in hops could be compared to those of any vegetable or fruit... think canned v. fresh. I often get notes of canned peach and stale tea... fruit and tea likely have some of the exact same compounds as hops that are causing the particular flavor (most "flavor active" compounds occur in multiple places, but it is the magical combination of compounds that make up for the "essence" of a particular fruit, veg, etc).
To sum it up, let's say you have an oxidized american IPA... it is just starting to show signs... You might have enhanced carmel flavors (malt derrived) notes of stone fruit like canned peaches (hops) and a less pleasant, flat bitterness (hops). There might be a popsickle stick aroma or no aroma at all where you're expecting a fresh burst of straight-up dryhop action. This is, unfortunately what most bottled IPAs taste like due to poor handling!
-N

Pretty cool of her to take the time to share. Thanks Nicole!

Mills
:bnarmy:
Sergeant: BN Army - Michigan Brewing Division

I've been pounding Chad's Dunkel all night.

- Doc

Twitter: @adammmills Follow me, yo!

http://thosewhocantteachbrew.blogspot.com
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Re: Oxidized Hop Aromas/Flavors

Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:04 am

Wow, that all makes sense. I recognize a lot of that in retrospect now. She really has a gift for combining all the sensory experience with the science and putting it down in words. Nichole is awsome!
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Re: Oxidized Hop Aromas/Flavors

Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:19 pm

Mills wrote:Hey all,

I sent this question in to feedback in hopes that they would discuss it during tomorrow's Boulder Beer Company show. I figured that I might be able to get some feedback from the BN Army as well.

I have heard Tasty talk about oxidized hops in APA's and IPA's. What are some descriptors that can be used to describe those flavors/aromas? I assume it is not the paper, carboard, stale compounds that you get from an oxidized beer.

Have you noticed oxidized beer notes? How do you describe them. I get it as slightly minty/medicinal. Am I off base, or describing it wrong?

Mills
:bnarmy:


I have recently struggled with my hoppy beers having a relatively short life span. I use whole hops only and narrowed the problem to oxidation from dry hopping. My presumption is the oxygen within the cone of the hops is enough to oxidize the finished beer.

My fix for the problem was to switch to Cask Conditioning. In short, I dry hop in the keg and add priming sugar. What my plan is for the residual yeast to become active with the dose of new sugar and metabolize the oxygen within the hops. After the beer is carbonated, I chill the beer to 34 degrees and transfer to a clean keg.

So far, this has worked well. My oldest beer that I have done this regime is now three months old and it still has a nice fresh hop aroma and flavor.
I know that this is not a direct answer to you question, but it may help you if you are having the same problem that I had.
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