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Justin, Daniela (07/23/06 show)

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2285

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Justin, Daniela (07/23/06 show)

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:11 pm
by Kaiser
Sorry I couldn't stick around long enough to listen to the whole show live (was a first for me). It was getting late and I had to put my daughter to bed (including reading several books; in German of couse ;) )

But I head Daniela make the remark that the efficiency on your system is pretty random. This is a common problem with fly sparging. If you don't sparge perfectly, you can easily get channeling which will leave sugar in the grains. Thus an unpredictable efficiency.

This problem does not exist with batch sparging. You run off the first wort (the water you mashed with). Then you add new water and stir the mash to dissolve the sugars. While the mash is sitting for 10+ min, you can already bing your collected wort to a boil and create some hot break. This actually makes managing a boil-over easier and AG brewing in a 7gal turkey fryer pot much less messy :). I usually need to reload the mash with water twice to get the 24L run-off that I collect.

Since there are no channeling problems in batch sparging, your efficiency will be more predictable. Sure batch sparging is slightly lower efficiency than fly sparging (when done right), but I usually get +/- 80% on my system (Igloo cooler) and grain is cheap. I can also sparge in 30min when I batch sparge since I can let it rip.

I'm just saying, give batch sparging a try. It's simpler. You don't do decotion masches either since they are more complicated ;)

If you brew your first AG batches and have to learn the efficiency of your system, keep some DME and water at hand. Based on the OG and the boil-off you expect, you can determine the pre-boil gravity and volume. If your efficiency was off, use DME or water to compensate. This way you can still hit your OG if you didn't hit the expected gravity. I did this for my first few batches and it made me relax quite a bit. ProMash/BeerSmith can help you with that.

Currently I'm a little bit pressimistic on the efficiency when I design a recipe. This way I will have to dillute with water to adjust the OG and still keep it AG. But my efficiency is fairly predictable (+/- 2%) these days.

hope that is not a repeat of what was suggested during the show and that it helps.

Justin, brew-on
Daniela, Gut Sud

Kai

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:27 pm
by LBrewski
I've been doing partial mash, looking at going all grain soon and was considering the B3 igloo cooler (fly sparge), but you make a convincing argument for batch sparge. Curious as to what Igloo cooler you are using and which pickup setup you have, false bottom steel braid or ?

Thanks,
-Larry

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:26 pm
by Ozbrewer
i dont think the problem is channeling at al, infact i will stake my rep on it, the b3 igloo systems are pretty immune to this for 2 reasons

as much as i thought the phils sparger was crappy it does do a great job of sprinling the water on top of the grain bed, and the system has a full false bottom, this illiminats the channeling problem, i think the problem is infact both J and D getting used to the new system, and the fact that the grain from b3 is crushed very inconsistantly.

My system is verry simmilar and i get very consistant results, but when i first put it together it was all over the place untill i got it all worked out. I would sugg4est that J and D get there grain doubble milled from B3 and stick to verry similar recipes untill they work out the system and get better aquainted with the system, the batch sparge v fly sparge debate will go on forever, long past us, but i doubt it reay makes a differance if you know your system

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:06 pm
by Kaiser
LBrewski wrote:I've been doing partial mash, looking at going all grain soon and was considering the B3 igloo cooler (fly sparge), but you make a convincing argument for batch sparge. Curious as to what Igloo cooler you are using and which pickup setup you have, false bottom steel braid or ?


I got a gift certificate for HD when I build this:

Image
Image

I use a cooler that I already had as hot liquer tank and tranfer the hot water with a measuring cup.

Kai

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:17 am
by LBrewski
Thanks Kai, nicely done, looks very solid.
-Larry

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:40 am
by bperetto
I second the statement that sparge process has nothing to do with variable efficiency.

But I have graphed how predicted OG will vary efficiency pretty much linearly. The higher the OG the lower the efficiency.


BTW: I have two brew systems, both 10G. I batch sparge with a cooler in one, Fly sparge in a SS Pot in the other. There is no difference in efficiency, quality, or time/effort it takes between the systems.

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:17 pm
by Kaiser
bperetto wrote:I second the statement that sparge process has nothing to do with variable efficiency.


This is only true when both sparging options are done properly. I argue that if you are trying to fly-sparge to fast or with channelling you will get an unpredictable efficiency.

But I have graphed how predicted OG will vary efficiency pretty much linearly. The higher the OG the lower the efficiency.


I assume that the efficiency changes linearly because of the fact that you are running-off to a fixed amount of pre-boil volume. I see the same with my system where I have to stop sparging when I have 24L in the boil kettle.

BTW: I have two brew systems, both 10G. I batch sparge with a cooler in one, Fly sparge in a SS Pot in the other. There is no difference in efficiency, quality, or time/effort it takes between the systems.


I thought that batch sparging is faster since you don't have to maintain a slow flow of wort.

Kai

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:41 pm
by Ozbrewer
dont foprget with batch sparging you need to vorloff each time after each batch, thats where it can get time consuming

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