RIMMS heatstick quetion.

[yinzer]

With RIMMS there is chance to scorch the mash since the heat stick is glowing red hot. Has anyone ever though about hooking up a rheostat to one? When it's not heating to increase for a step mash and just maintaining temperature, how long does it come on? If it's short (extremely hot) pulses with long delays, why not longer (cooler) pulses?

As far as I know they are only controlled with an on/off relay.

[Thirsty Boy]

Rims elements don't heat anything like red hot, and aside from if you allow gunk to build up in the rims chamber so you have actual solid material resting on the element... The whole wort scorching thing is, as far as I am concerned, something that brewers who don't use electric elements in their brewing, imagine might happen... And have told the world does.

I have a rims... I don't even bother using a low density element in it... And there is no scorching of wort. I boil my kettle with an electric immersion element, and scorching doesn't happen... I know several other brewers who use rims and or electric boiling elements... And wort scorching doesn't happen.

It is, to all intents and purposes, a myth in a properly designed RIMS... and a complete myth in a wort boiling situation.

And lots of people are using properly designed controllers to reduce the output of their elements in boil kettles. There are a number of ways to manage it. Nothing really to do with scorching though, its about controlling the level of the boil. I dont howerver. I do use a PID on my RIMS which pulses the heat in a 2 second duty cycle, with an SSR ins read of a mechanical relay, that would be multiple times per second. I'm not of the opinion that an on off controller offers the level of control and accuracy you need in a rims anyway, they can work OK in a herms... But a rims is a much more touchy system that needs a smarter controller.

TB

[yinzer]

Rims elements don't heat anything like red hot, and aside from if you allow gunk to build up in the rims chamber so you have actual solid material resting on the element... The whole wort scorching thing is, as far as I am concerned, something that brewers who don't use electric elements in their brewing, imagine might happen... And have told the world does.

I have a rims... I don't even bother using a low density element in it... And there is no scorching of wort. I boil my kettle with an electric immersion element, and scorching doesn't happen... I know several other brewers who use rims and or electric boiling elements... And wort scorching doesn't happen.

It is, to all intents and purposes, a myth in a properly designed RIMS... and a complete myth in a wort boiling situation.

And lots of people are using properly designed controllers to reduce the output of their elements in boil kettles. There are a number of ways to manage it. Nothing really to do with scorching though, its about controlling the level of the boil. I dont howerver. I do use a PID on my RIMS which pulses the heat in a 2 second duty cycle, with an SSR ins read of a mechanical relay, that would be multiple times per second. I'm not of the opinion that an on off controller offers the level of control and accuracy you need in a rims anyway, they can work OK in a herms... But a rims is a much more touchy system that needs a smarter controller.

TB

thanks for the clarification on how the heat stick really works. It looks like what I'm suggesting has been included and upgraded.

I've been doing some Googling since this looks more attractive. I was all set to get a horizontal three burner frame and go direct-fire recirculation (I already have a pump) with a new Blickmann mash tun. I really want to control the mash temp and go up in temp as I mash. But the frame with no burners is $400, add burner(s), regulators, about another $400 for the mash kettle/false bottom. What's a RIMS cost? Under $300? I could kludge that into my 10 gal plastic cooler and solve my temperate control issue nicely all on a simple wood frame. I don't think that the frame is a bargin/or maybe it is, still trying to find out. And I can alway incorporate the RIMS into the horizontal system that I was thinking of. The cooler works great as far as no stuck sparges etc.



cheers

[yinzer]

I think I hit the mother-lode




http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rims-dummies-114997/

[foomench]

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rims-dummies-114997/

I only looked at the first page of the thread, not all 46, so maybe this comes up later, but:
1) I'd use an inconel heating element if it is going to be in contact with wort or other brewery chemicals.
2) I'd get an RTD probe instead of type J, which Auber has and can be used with that controller.

[beltbuckle]

Rims elements don't heat anything like red hot, and aside from if you allow gunk to build up in the rims chamber so you have actual solid material resting on the element... The whole wort scorching thing is, as far as I am concerned, something that brewers who don't use electric elements in their brewing, imagine might happen... And have told the world does.

Well said, I am also a RIMS brewer and whole heatedly agree about this myth.

Unfortunately the spreading of misinformation that is not based on first-hand knowledge is prevalent in homebrewing. I think it's because most homebrewers are great people and it's done in an attempt to be helpful. Take everything with a few milligrams of NaCl.

[yinzer]

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rims-dummies-114997/

I only looked at the first page of the thread, not all 46, so maybe this comes up later, but:
1) I'd use an inconel heating element if it is going to be in contact with wort or other brewery chemicals.
2) I'd get an RTD probe instead of type J, which Auber has and can be used with that controller.

Thanks

inconnel means nickel? I can't find any. Would Home Depot have these?

In the thread it's suggested to go with 1 1/2" pipe instead if 2", less mass to heat. Anyone agree?

I'm going with the 2" RTD, that should be long enough right? And I added in a 1/2X1/4 bushing. I assume that that 2X1 is for the heating element.

There also seems to be a big discussion on where to put the probe. I'll assume everyone agrees to put it in the RIMS unit.

[Thirsty Boy]

Yes to the rtd, they will give you finer resolution and most likely better accuracy than a k or j type thermocouple.

As for the element, I suggest a straight smooth stainless one like this



You fit it into a tube, where the gap between the wall of the tube and the sides of the element is as small as you can make it, while still allowing room for grain chunks etc to go past... A few mm max. Then the actual volume of liquid that the unit can hold is quite small - which in turn means that the liquid that flows through it, does so quickly, going past the element at a high "surface" speed. Thus it picks up and takes away the elements heat very quickly, stopping the surface of the element ever getting very hot, and also the mechanical action of the fast flowing liquid, tends to scrub off any build up of protein matter that might tend to occur as temperature increases.

These sorts of elements are great, assuming you are smart enough to make your unit easy and quick to pull apart... They wipe clean with a rag in seconds with no curves nooks and crannies you have to get into with a scrubber.

Not recommending those particular units mind you... Just that one in that style is what I consider to be the ideal.

TB