Beer Forum

In order to further uderstand the saccrification of the mash by mainly alpha and beta amylase I have been looking for graphs that show the actitvity of these enzymes over temperature for a constant PH and mash thickness. Has anyone a pointer to such a graph?

I have seen the one in howtobrew.com, but want something more quantative. I'm also looking through some of the papers on the ASBC page (thanks Jamil).

Kai

Well, this seems to be a pice of information that is rather hard to find. I still have to get my hands on good brewing text books.

But here is something that is a start: http://www.vt.tuwien.ac.at/scripts/1729 ... 2833641128

Sorry that it is German, but page 13 and 14 show amylase activity decreases over time for different temperatures.

FYI, though being written in German, there are lots of good pictures and schematics for commercial brewing equipment used in german breweries. Most of the diagrams are titled in english anyway. If you are curious about a particular German section, let me know and I can help you.

BTW, all the fermentation diagrams for lagers show cold pitching (Jamil and Dr. Scot should be happy about that)

Kai

Holly crap K, you must be on a frick'n mission. Maybe D will translate that for everyone on the next show.

Kaiser wrote:Well, this seems to be a pice of information that is rather hard to find. I still have to get my hands on good brewing text books.

But here is something that is a start: http://www.vt.tuwien.ac.at/scripts/1729 ... 2833641128

Sorry that it is German, but page 13 and 14 show amylase activity decreases over time for different temperatures.

FYI, though being written in German, there are lots of good pictures and schematics for commercial brewing equipment used in german breweries. Most of the diagrams are titled in english anyway. If you are curious about a particular German section, let me know and I can help you.

BTW, all the fermentation diagrams for lagers show cold pitching (Jamil and Dr. Scot should be happy about that)

Kai

No kiddin Kai, you be da man! Say, I have a question or two as well. I'm familiar with the different mashing methods yet what is your opinion on this. When mashing in, if you miss your initial mash temp. for a single infusion mash, say your aiming for 152 on a 60 to 90 min. mash and you dough in and hit 144 and to correct this you make hot additions in order to bring it up to temp. What is actually wrong hanging in that lower temp for the brief period until your on target? Is there a negative effect during that period with undesirable enzyme activity?

Steve

Steve wrote:No kiddin Kai, you be da man! Say, I have a question or two as well. I'm familiar with the different mashing methods yet what is your opinion on this.

For German style beers, I like to use the 2-step saccrification rest which has a rest at 140F-147F (60-64C) and a rest at 158-161F (70-72C). Besides making sure that all starch is converted, the latter rest helps with foam stability as there are medium weight proteins formed (according to Fix). It also gives you an opportunity to do a double decoction (60C -> 70C -> 75C) w/o having a protein rest in case you have overmodified malt and want to mash in above the protein rest.

For American and English ales, I use the single infusion mash, as that is their approprioate mash schedule.

When mashing in, if you miss your initial mash temp. for a single infusion mash, say your aiming for 152 on a 60 to 90 min. mash and you dough in and hit 144 and to correct this you make hot additions in order to bring it up to temp. What is actually wrong hanging in that lower temp for the brief period until your on target? Is there a negative effect during that period with undesirable enzyme activity?

In my opinion, it is always better to miss the mash target towards the lower temp. This way you don't cook the Betas (though they will not all immediately denature if its a few deg above their optimum). If you can get the the mash-temp adjusted within 5 min, you shouldn't see to much on an effect of the increased beta-amylase activity. If you would use a heated mash-tun and raise the mash temp accoring to a step mash program, you would already get amylase activity before the rest temp is reached. In this case you would account for that in the lengths of your rests.

Make sure you always note the actual temps for your mash. If you mashed in to low, note that and how long it took to get to your mash target. Also note the mash time, final temp and actual water to grain ratio. By doing so you will hopefully get an idea how mashing schedules in your system translate to attenuation of the wort.


BTW, I love the picture on the right on page 57. I woder if the beer that is hanging there in the upper left corner is his breakfast

Kai

Kaiser wrote:

Steve wrote:No kiddin Kai, you be da man! Say, I have a question or two as well. I'm familiar with the different mashing methods yet what is your opinion on this.

For German style beers, I like to use the 2-step saccrification rest which has a rest at 140F-147F (60-64C) and a rest at 158-161F (70-72C). Besides making sure that all starch is converted, the latter rest helps with foam stability as there are medium weight proteins formed (according to Fix). It also gives you an opportunity to do a double decoction (60C -> 70C -> 75C) w/o having a protein rest in case you have overmodified malt and want to mash in above the protein rest.

For American and English ales, I use the single infusion mash, as that is their approprioate mash schedule.

When mashing in, if you miss your initial mash temp. for a single infusion mash, say your aiming for 152 on a 60 to 90 min. mash and you dough in and hit 144 and to correct this you make hot additions in order to bring it up to temp. What is actually wrong hanging in that lower temp for the brief period until your on target? Is there a negative effect during that period with undesirable enzyme activity?

In my opinion, it is always better to miss the mash target towards the lower temp. This way you don't cook the Betas (though they will not all immediately denature if its a few deg above their optimum). If you can get the the mash-temp adjusted within 5 min, you shouldn't see to much on an effect of the increased beta-amylase activity. If you would use a heated mash-tun and raise the mash temp accoring to a step mash program, you would already get amylase activity before the rest temp is reached. In this case you would account for that in the lengths of your rests.

Make sure you always note the actual temps for your mash. If you mashed in to low, note that and how long it took to get to your mash target. Also note the mash time, final temp and actual water to grain ratio. By doing so you will hopefully get an idea how mashing schedules in your system translate to attenuation of the wort.


BTW, I love the picture on the right on page 57. I woder if the beer that is hanging there in the upper left corner is his breakfast

Kai

Thanks Kai, lot's of good info there! But you lost me on that last part. Page 57? I don't have Fix's book wanna fill me in on that one?
Steve