As to other peoples' recipes I can only say that many of my fellow homebrewers use them (including Jamil's, and as you say, they are usually underattenuated.) So I do have a basis for comparison. I never said Jamil needed to prove anything. Merely that he isn't fully trusted.
As to the Flanders Red. I have been researching mostly the professional literature, reading (and re-reading,) "Wild Brews," and chasing down home brewers (those within reasonable range) who have made some for a taste test. I've also been looking at (and pricing) barrels of various sizes from various sources. I never said my research was comprehensive or exhaustive, which is why I asked the questions I have here. For me it's not enough to make something similar to a Flanders Red. I won't accept anything less than awesome. So I take my time, try to nail down all the variables and then go for broke. And broke, it seems, I will be by the time I'm finished with this particular project.
Not only does it seem I will need to purchase and fill a large barrel, I may have to build a small flash-pasteurizing unit to provide long-term bottle stability.
So enough of this. Everyone here seems more interested in attacking than helping with useful information. I'm done!

Not trying to attack dude, just providing counterpoints to your claims and asking questions. I also provided a few places for you to check out to help in making a great Flander's Red. Raj Apte's oxygen permeation research was published in Wild Brews, and his designs for replicating Rodenbach are on his website. Michael Tonnesmeire has tried his methods a number of times, made changes, and has all his data and trials online. Jamil does it completely differently, so if you don't trust him (which is fine), then try the other two.

Hoprunner said:

Thanks man. I'm on it. Just need to go to the hardware store to pick up disposable 02 tanks.

Aleguy: I certainly did not write my response to your email to attack you, but I did write it to defend Jamil's reputation as the awesome, generous, and friendly homebrewer that he is. We are talking about a guy that responds to every homebrewing email he receives personally.

I don't find it necessary to agree 100% with what any beer guru says. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat, and this is an art too, not just a science.

aleguy - It's all good. Sorry if we got defensive. Jamil has poured his heart into this and we kind of like him....

I actually didn't joint the local homebrew club because they had that jaded attitude. I mention the word "podcast" and they completely glaze over and tune out. I talk with several members and even the president of the club often and we just don't click. Just different approaches to the same craft. Not better or worse just different. Stay here and contribute. There is room enough for all approaches! Now let's hug....

Back to Flanders:
For better or worse, it is OK with me to get "close enough". My goal is to satisfy the same thirst that the Rodenbach beers quench. I don't have the cash or the desire to attempt to duplicate the actual brewing process.

I am going to rely on the canned bugs from Wyeast and White Labs and oak cubes from the brew shop. My goal is to make the best sour ale "I" can possibly make with my stock homebrew set-up.

I was kind of disappointed with the Wild Brew book. It is a facinating read and I read it cover to cover, but what I really wanted was more information on how scale it down to a homebrew level. The big thing I did take away from the book is that there is literally an infinite variety to the sour ales. That bit of wisdom really opened me up for experimentation. My goal is to make something I really like and not worry if it tastes like a Rodenbach or a Cantillion or whatever.

Brew Strong!

I was kind of disappointed with the Wild Brew book. It is a facinating read and I read it cover to cover, but what I really wanted was more information on how scale it down to a homebrew level. The big thing I did take away from the book is that there is literally an infinite variety to the sour ales. That bit of wisdom really opened me up for experimentation. My goal is to make something I really like and not worry if it tastes like a Rodenbach or a Cantillion or whatever.

Brew Strong![/quote]

This too was my problem. I'm not interested in exactly replicating a specific beer, if that's really even possible with a sour ale. I do however expect whatever I make to be awesome! That is why I am taking so much time before I take a walk on the wild side.
By the way. I don't have anything against Jamil. I'm sure he deserves everything he has achieved. I was simply reporting on the attitude of many of my fellow club members, whose experiences have led them (and me) to think there is something missing from the information he provides. But enough of that. I don't want to get stuck piggy in the middle again.

Okay,

Lets bring it back to topic- SOUR FLANDERS!!! Delicious.... Please keep the ideas rollin' so we can all make some great beer. Getting ready to order 4 packs of Roselare very soon. Can't wait to begin the lengthy process of making my own version of sours....

Sadly it's too late in the year for me to get any new yeasts or blends. It's gotten so hot that there's no way they'll survive shipping until next December. I could always try culturing my own from the wild, but that would be a real craps shoot.

listen to Jamil's podcast. He recommends underpitching a Cal ale. His goal is here to leave the beer around 1.020, then he will pitch the Roselare in secondary, which will eat up the majority of the residual sugars..eventually. For those that argue traditional use of Belgian yeasts, Jamil uses cal ale to avoid the traditional practice of blending a super sour beer with another to arrive at a medium sourness keeping it really smooth. I'm ordering the yeast this weekend, so what the hell do I know? I've listened to the podcast about 3 times. I can't wait to get this going so that I can forget about it.