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 Post subject: Re: Late Extract Timing
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:59 am 
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crupp wrote:
alan_marks wrote:
So, perhaps horrible equates to DMS in the finished product? +1 on the 15 minute addition, then I usually add my Irish moss and put my chiller into the boil to sanitize.

Alan


I have to believe that along with the proteins break, DMS has already been driven off in the production of the extract. What do you all think?


Probably.

The idea of adding the extract at flameout seems like bad juju to me. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Late Extract Timing
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:44 am 
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Dirk McLargeHuge wrote:
Probably.

The idea of adding the extract at flameout seems like bad juju to me. :?


Agreed. I always add it at 15 minutes when I'm playing around with extract. Not to hijack the thread, but what does everything thing about hop utilization with the lower gravity boil? If you're doing late additions, you're preforming your boil with roughly half of your sugar...what will that do to hop utilization?

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 Post subject: Re: Late Extract Timing
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:53 am 
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crupp wrote:
Dirk McLargeHuge wrote:
Probably.

The idea of adding the extract at flameout seems like bad juju to me. :?


Agreed. I always add it at 15 minutes when I'm playing around with extract. Not to hijack the thread, but what does everything thing about hop utilization with the lower gravity boil? If you're doing late additions, you're preforming your boil with roughly half of your sugar...what will that do to hop utilization?

I beleive it's fine, as long as your OG is correct. The Pope and Tasty always say you should measure the gravity of the wort at the end of the boil so you can add extract if you need it to hit your numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Late Extract Timing
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:05 am 
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Thanks for the help!

As far as the taste goes, I'm not really sure what it is, as I haven't been brewing long and don't have much to go off of besides the descriptions I've seen (cooked corn for DMS, green apple for acetaldehyde, etc.). I'm thinking its DMS, but that may be because that is the problem that I would expect from adding the extract too late and letting it sit, as stated in BCS (thanks for the quote Moby). Also, there is noticeable haze in the beer. When I first pick up a bottle and look at it you can see "clouds" of haze before it gets mixed up by getting moved around.

It sounds like the general consensus is to add the late extract portion at 15 minutes. I am planning on trying again with my next batch, I'll add at 15 min. and see how it turns out. I'm assuming that the impact on hop utilization should be small, as the 15 min. point is still rather late in the boil. How would the higher boil gravity (from the addition of the extra extract) affect flavor/aroma hops?


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 Post subject: Re: Late Extract Timing
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:51 pm 
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andygravity wrote:
Thanks for the help!

As far as the taste goes, I'm not really sure what it is, as I haven't been brewing long and don't have much to go off of besides the descriptions I've seen (cooked corn for DMS, green apple for acetaldehyde, etc.). I'm thinking its DMS, but that may be because that is the problem that I would expect from adding the extract too late and letting it sit, as stated in BCS (thanks for the quote Moby). Also, there is noticeable haze in the beer. When I first pick up a bottle and look at it you can see "clouds" of haze before it gets mixed up by getting moved around.

It sounds like the general consensus is to add the late extract portion at 15 minutes. I am planning on trying again with my next batch, I'll add at 15 min. and see how it turns out. I'm assuming that the impact on hop utilization should be small, as the 15 min. point is still rather late in the boil. How would the higher boil gravity (from the addition of the extra extract) affect flavor/aroma hops?

It should mute them. If you didn't add the extract the beer would be too bitter for the style.

Are you bottling or kegging? If you're bottling, you could be seeing the yeast sediment, which does act like a cloud. When you pour, leave a little beer in the bottle, so the yeast stays in. If you're not bottle conditioning, you might add gelatin to your fermenter a couple of days before you package. That will help clarify your beer.

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 Post subject: Re: Late Extract Timing
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:41 pm 
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The haze could be yeast, or it could be something else all together. You might have a sanitation/infection problem if the beer is really as horrible as you say and doesn't seem to fall into the cooked corn aroma of DMS. You could still adjust your malt addition time if you feel that is the issue, but make sure that you are both cleaning and sanitizing all of your cold side equipment/packaging. As far as potential infections/unsanitized stuff goes, it it is only some bottles, it may be there, but if it is everything, look to fermentor, bottling bucket, tubing, etc. If you are kegging, it may be harder to narrow down the source. My rule of thumb is to clean it if I'm in doubt. Since you said you were new, is any of your equipment second hand?

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 Post subject: Re: Late Extract Timing
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:52 am 
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I bottled the beer (I don't have kegging equip. yet), and have tried 5-6 different bottles. The bad taste is present in all of the beers that I have tried, so if it is infection, I'm pretty sure it came from something other than the bottles. None of my equipment is second hand, and I try to be diligent about cleaning/sanitization, but I'm sure there is a possibility of infection. The cloud like appearance in this beer is different than the way yeast has looked in any of my other batches. As I mentioned earlier, if I were to guess I'd say it is a DMS problem, but I don't really have anything solid to go off of since I haven't really tasted it before.


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